Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2018-03-23

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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Time Nick Message
00:01 Geth ¦ doc: 3d009178ce | cfa++ | doc/Language/functions.pod6
00:01 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/functions
00:01 Geth ¦ doc: Tweak sub declarator example, address sink context warning.
00:01 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3d009178ce
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00:12 herby_ o/
00:14 El_Che 👋
00:15 herby_ dumb question: if I opened an issue on github, and the issue was closed, is there a way to re-open it if the issue persists?
00:16 herby_ or is it better practice to open another issue
00:16 El_Che if it's the same, I would reopen it
00:17 herby_ k thanks
00:18 herby_ tyil: i failed further downstream this time in attempting to install App::Assixt.  I added it to the github issue
00:18 El_Che 01:20, time to go to bed
00:18 * El_Che away
00:18 herby_ night!
00:18 El_Che zooof
00:18 El_Che bye
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00:21 travis-ci Doc build failed. cfa 'Tweak sub declarator example, address sink context warning.'
00:21 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/357163071 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/03a749dde206...3d009178cefb
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00:21 buggable [travis build above] ☠ Did not recognize some failures. Check results manually.
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01:20 Geth ¦ doc: 6288b87341 | cfa++ | doc/Type/Range.pod6
01:20 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/type/Range
01:20 Geth ¦ doc: Tidy Range, address sink context warning.
01:20 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/6288b87341
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01:37 travis-ci Doc build passed. cfa 'Tidy Range, address sink context warning.'
01:37 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/357184603 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/3d009178cefb...6288b87341db
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01:41 Geth ¦ doc: 876ea071f0 | cfa++ | 3 files
01:41 Geth ¦ doc: Skip tests for a few more sink context blocks.
01:41 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/876ea071f0
01:43 donpdonp after "rakudobrew build moar", perl6 --version => This is Rakudo version 2017.07-56-g12d7d5b built on MoarVM version 2017.07-15-g0729f84. implementing Perl 6.c.
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01:43 donpdonp yet the latest perl6 is 2018.01, and i can see 2018 versions in rakudobrew list-available.
01:45 cfa a couple of things: (i) rakudobrew is no longer recommended (ii) i think you're stuck on the nom branch
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01:45 cfa try: rakudobrew build moar master
01:45 cfa (i think build takes vm and branch, check the help if you want to stick with rakudobrew)
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01:49 donpdonp cfa. thx. what is recommended now?
01:50 cfa https://rakudup.github.io is an option
01:50 cfa it'll install the latest release version rather than HEAD of master
01:50 MasterDuke huggable: debs
01:50 huggable MasterDuke, CentOS, Debian, Fedora and Ubuntu Rakudo packages: https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases
01:50 cfa or, yeah, if you don't want to track the near latest, rakudo star or ^
01:50 AlexDaniel donpdonp: what's your distro?
01:51 cfa i'll defer to others on this
01:51 donpdonp AlexDaniel: ubuntu
01:52 donpdonp i'll just keep with rakudobrew for a while longer.
01:52 donpdonp i see there are debs in https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases
01:52 donpdonp thx all.
01:52 cfa i dropped it after recent discussions here, started using stmuk_'s rakudup
01:58 donpdonp rakudup: git clone https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git ; perl Configure.pl --gen-moar ... pretty strightforward :)
01:59 cfa yeah, it's boring
01:59 cfa but that's the point
01:59 cfa give me the latest release and zef, no fuss
02:00 donpdonp nod.
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02:55 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
02:55 donpdonp now that im on 2018.03, Could not find Digest::SHA
02:56 donpdonp is that part of the perl6 stdlib? im having a hard time telling.
02:56 timotimo there isn't a "stdlib", there's only "what your distribution of perl6 has for you"; we only have rakudo star
02:56 timotimo https://github.com/rakudo/star/tree/master/modules
02:56 Geth ¦ doc: a6ca64e518 | cfa++ | 2 files
02:56 Geth ¦ doc: Tidy Mixy and Rat, address sink context warnings.
02:56 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a6ca64e518
02:56 timotimo those are the modules that ship with it, donpdonp
02:57 donpdonp thx timotimo
02:57 timotimo looks like we have only an MD5 module ... :\
02:57 timotimo Should work with latest (2012.01) release of Rakudo, the "nom" branch-based version.
02:57 timotimo %)
02:58 cfa not finished yet, but at least example compilation warnings are pretty concise now
02:58 cfa (doing this stepwise as most of these sink context warnings call out for slight rewrites)
03:00 donpdonp is there a file that goes in the perl6 project folder to tell zef what packages this app needs? (eg. package.json for nodejs)
03:01 timotimo yes, META6.json
03:01 donpdonp cool.
03:02 timotimo https://docs.perl6.org/language/modules#Preparing_the_Module - this should get you started
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03:15 donpdonp im using Socket::Async.connect( -> $promise { ... if something goes wrong here, the exception is silently dropped
03:15 donpdonp makes it impossible to debug. is there something I can do to get the app to crash or show an error?
03:16 timotimo can you give a little more exact code? connect(-> $promise { }) would surely be wrong?
03:18 timotimo you'll need to act on the result of the promise; if you await the promise, the await statement will throw an exception if the promise is broken
03:18 donpdonp https://gist.github.com/donpdonp/4302a88d1bf6d84a6feaffc4e7e29fa5
03:19 donpdonp also I can change read_loop($socket ... to read_loop(Str $socket... and it doesnt complain.
03:19 donpdonp i would have expected an exception since $socket isnt a Str
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03:24 timotimo m: my $foo = (1 / 0); say $foo.perl
03:24 camelia rakudo-moar 8ce20ae1f: OUTPUT: «<1/0>␤»
03:24 timotimo m: my $foo = (1 / 0); say $foo + 1
03:24 camelia rakudo-moar 8ce20ae1f: OUTPUT: «Attempt to divide 1 by zero using div␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:24 timotimo that's why
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03:24 donpdonp ah if I .then{} after the first promise, then i see the broken promise/exception.
03:24 donpdonp hmm thats interesting too.
03:24 donpdonp 1/0 is valid until evaluated
03:25 timotimo m: my $foo = (1 / 0); say $foo.^name
03:25 camelia rakudo-moar 8ce20ae1f: OUTPUT: «Rat␤»
03:25 timotimo mhm
03:25 timotimo we also have another thing called "Failure", which is a "lazy exception"
03:26 timotimo you can "disarm" it by checking for its boolean value, but if you try to actually do something with it, it'll throw
03:26 timotimo m: sub this-fails() { fail "oh no" }; my $result = this-fails; say $result ~ "oooh nooo"
03:26 camelia rakudo-moar 8ce20ae1f: OUTPUT: «oh no␤  in sub this-fails at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:26 timotimo m: sub this-fails() { fail "oh no" }; my $result = this-fails; say $result ~ "oooh nooo" if $result
03:26 camelia rakudo-moar 8ce20ae1f: ( no output )
03:27 timotimo m: sub this-fails() { fail "oh no" }; my $result = this-fails; say $result
03:27 camelia rakudo-moar 8ce20ae1f: OUTPUT: «oh no␤  in sub this-fails at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:27 timotimo m: sub this-fails() { fail "oh no" }; my $result = this-fails; say $result unless $result # here we check for its .Bool first
03:27 camelia rakudo-moar 8ce20ae1f: OUTPUT: «(HANDLED) oh no␤  in sub this-fails at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
03:27 timotimo the check makes it "handled"
03:27 timotimo anyway, gotta go, seeya and good luck!
03:29 donpdonp thx again!
03:33 donpdonp IO::Socket::Async.connect($host, 8333).then( -> $promise { CATCH { default { say .^name, ': ', .Str } }; ... that looks like a winner
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03:38 donpdonp ive got a Buf of [w,o,r,d,0,0,0,0,0] (null padding ascii string). is there an easy way to turn this into a Str that stops at the first null?
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03:51 llfourn m: say [|<w o r d>,0,0,0,0,"z"].map: { last when 0; $_  }
03:51 camelia rakudo-moar 8ce20ae1f: OUTPUT: «(w o r d)␤»
03:52 llfourn m: say join "", [|<w o r d>,0,0,0,0,"z"].map: { last when 0; $_  }
03:52 camelia rakudo-moar 8ce20ae1f: OUTPUT: «word␤»
03:52 llfourn donpdonp: maybe^
03:54 donpdonp llfourn: nice thx.
03:55 Juerd unpack Z*... p5pack probably does that
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03:56 llfourn m: say [|<w o r d>,0,0,0,0,"z"].grep: { not 0 ff * } # using ff
03:56 camelia rakudo-moar 8ce20ae1f: OUTPUT: «(w o r d)␤»
03:59 llfourn m: say [|<w o r d>,0,0,0,0,"z"].grep: { last when 0; True } # maybe the most sensible
03:59 camelia rakudo-moar 8ce20ae1f: OUTPUT: «(w o r d)␤»
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04:05 donpdonp a.pl: use b; b.pl: module b { sub x is export..}
04:06 donpdonp i can say x inside a.pl, but I want to keep x inside b::x rather than being brought into a's root namespace
04:06 donpdonp how can i do this?
04:07 donpdonp (actual in my code its b.pm6 instead of b.pl)
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04:15 zostay module b { our sub x { ... } }
04:16 zostay m: module b { our sub x { } }; b::x();
04:16 camelia rakudo-moar 8ce20ae1f: ( no output )
04:16 zostay subs are lexically scoped by default, adding our makes them package scoped
04:19 donpdonp ah great. thx.
04:20 donpdonp I did read the docs.perl6.org honest, but couldnt find an answer
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04:21 zostay no problem... whether you did or not, i knew the answer to your question
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04:25 zostay If you want more information on scopes, this is probably the place to start so you can see what scopes there are (lexical vs package vs class member): https://docs.perl6.org/language/variables#Variable_Declarators_and_Scope
04:26 zostay The manual on subroutine declarations (https://docs.perl6.org/language/functions#Subroutines) is not totally clear by what it means by "current scope", but it means the current lexical scope. So, the same scope as my $variable
04:27 zostay You can even say my sub x() { ... } to make it explicit if you want.
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06:19 moritz zostay: it goes one with "By default, subroutines are L<lexically scoped|/syntax/my>. That is,
06:19 moritz C<sub foo {...}> is the same as C<my sub foo {...}> and is only
06:20 moritz defined within the current scope.
06:20 moritz looks pretty clear to me
06:20 JMERELO moritz: hi. Did you see my message yesterday about docs.per6.org logs?
06:21 donpdonp class Version { has Str $.useragent; method new(Buf $b) { $!useragent = ... #Cannot look up attributes in a btcproto::version::Version type object
06:21 donpdonp what?
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06:26 donpdonp hmm. submethod BUILD.
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06:39 juan_ Hi there!
06:41 Geth ¦ doc: ed2e8ececb | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/variables.pod6
06:41 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/variables
06:41 Geth ¦ doc: Fixes index entries for $, closes #1861
06:41 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ed2e8ececb
06:42 jmerelo jalbo_: hi!
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06:51 jalbo_ Any recommendations for a gentle introduction to Perl 6, as a newbie? Little experience in web development. Thanks in advance!
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06:54 Juerd jalbo_: Perl 6 is not a web specific thing and as far as I know, there's no introduction course that focusses on that.
06:54 jmerelo jalbo_: have you tried http://perl6intro.com/?
06:54 Juerd jalbo_: Do you have any experience with other programming languages or is Perl 6 your first language?
06:55 jmerelo jalbo_: this presentation (in Spanish) https://ramiroencinas.com/docs/perl6intro-slides/#/ deals with Perl 6 for web development using a specific module
06:58 jalbo_ @Juerd: Basic JavaScript, that's all.
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07:01 jalbo_ @jmerelo: Yes, I've tried http://perl6intro.com/. Very nice place to start with, very friendly in my opinion. Just thinking about books, videos... I suppose there isn't a lot of resources at the moment.
07:02 jalbo_ jmerelo: And thanks for your advice. 🙂
07:03 jmerelo jalbo_: There are 7 books now... https://perl6book.com/
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07:04 jmerelo jalbo_: some videos too: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=search_videos&amp;search_query=perl6+&amp;search_sort=relevance&amp;search_category=0&amp;page=
07:04 jmerelo jalbo_: this one is mine, and it's focused on web development https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmQ3FQCIXmk
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07:08 jmerelo jalbo_: Perl6 is for the server, rather like Node. Not for the frontend. Suppose you know that already.
07:08 jalbo_ Well, it seems I am a bit misinformed. Thanks again for all the information and @jmerelo
07:09 jalbo_ jmerelo: Yes, I know this.
07:09 jmerelo jalbo_: if you have some specific thing in mind, just ask.
07:09 Ulti lizmat: just stumbled across a nice "in comments" for you https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/86cobk/ruby_creator_matz_yukihiro_matsumoto_discusses/dw4n5fx
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07:13 jalbo_ jmerelo: 👍. From your personal experience/ point of view is Perl 6 a good choice for a beginner? Just your opinion, no worries.
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08:46 lizmat notable6 weekly https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/86cobk/ruby_creator_matz_yukihiro_matsumoto_discusses/dw4n5fx
08:46 lizmat notable6: weekly https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/86cobk/ruby_creator_matz_yukihiro_matsumoto_discusses/dw4n5fx
08:46 notable6 lizmat, Noted!
08:47 lizmat Ulti: thanks!
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09:07 scimon Hey everyone. Not been at my best for a few weeks but gave a talk at LPM last night going into (excruciating and hopefully accurate) detail on Perl6 signatures.
09:08 scimon Turns out I can cover all the rules for signatures in 15 minues giving me 5 minutes for my 2 bonus slides. Type checking and Multi methods.
09:08 scimon I think I may need to give the whole talk in Glasgow.
09:10 moritz and here I contemplated writing a whole book on that subject :-)
09:10 scimon It probably viable.
09:11 scimon To go into the details.
09:11 moritz if the whole content fits into 20 minutes, a book might be overkill :-)
09:11 scimon That is literally just signatures.
09:12 scimon And there are probably details I missed.
09:14 robertle while we are talking about signatures: yesterday I commented out some code and ended up with an empty block in a Lock.protect:
09:14 robertle m: my $l = Lock.new; $l.protect({});
09:14 camelia rakudo-moar c43817ace: OUTPUT: «Attempt to unlock mutex by thread not holding it␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:15 robertle the error message confused me, but lizmat helpfully pointed out that this isn't an empty block, but a hash. great so far
09:15 robertle however:
09:15 robertle m: sub mp(&c) {&c()}; mp({});
09:15 camelia rakudo-moar c43817ace: OUTPUT: «Type check failed in binding to parameter '&c'; expected Callable but got Hash (${})␤  in sub mp at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:16 robertle so why do I not get the same error message for teh call to Lock.protect?
09:16 robertle m: use nqp; class SLC { method test(SLC:D: &c) { nqp::decont(c()); } }; my $sl = SLC.new; $sl.test({});
09:16 camelia rakudo-moar c43817ace: OUTPUT: «Type check failed in binding to parameter '&c'; expected Callable but got Hash (${})␤  in method test at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:16 robertle that pretty much is a copy of the Lock.protect signature and setup...
09:20 scimon First up... I knew I missed something when I covered sigils (I did a brief mention of them but forgot &). Is protect a multi method? Might there be a different one you're hitting?
09:20 robertle not a multi
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09:20 scimon (Yeah just seen the docs)
09:21 scimon I'd need to look at the code for it then.
09:21 lizmat robertle: did you make a GH issue for it ?
09:22 scimon But I think it's quickly moving beyond the area I'd be able to help with.
09:22 robertle lizmat: nope, not sure it's an issue or just me not understanding
09:22 lizmat it is an issue
09:22 robertle but it is very surprising...
09:22 robertle ok, will create ticket
09:23 lizmat m: sub a(&a) { }; a {} # this should be the error
09:23 camelia rakudo-moar c43817ace: OUTPUT: «Type check failed in binding to parameter '&a'; expected Callable but got Hash (${})␤  in sub a at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:24 robertle agreed, that's what I would expect and it would also be much clearer
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09:29 robertle R#1644, let me know if it needs more detail
09:29 synopsebot R#1644 [open]: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1644 Lock.protect({}) fails, but with surprising message
09:34 lizmat m: class A { method a(A:D: &a) {} }; A.new.a({})   # should be the error
09:34 camelia rakudo-moar c43817ace: OUTPUT: «Type check failed in binding to parameter '&a'; expected Callable but got Hash (${})␤  in method a at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:35 lizmat m: class A { method a(A:D: &a) { LEAVE die } }; A.new.a({})   # the plot thickens!
09:35 camelia rakudo-moar c43817ace: OUTPUT: «Died␤  in method a at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:36 lizmat apparently the LEAVE phaser is executed even though the method itself never got passed parameter binding
09:39 robertle ah! great find!
09:39 robertle isn't it also interesting that this apparently happens before the other error (siganture mismatch)?
09:40 lizmat m: sub a(&a) { LEAVE die }; a
09:40 camelia rakudo-moar c43817ace: OUTPUT: «Died␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:40 lizmat now that one is really strange, because that should  be a compile time error
09:41 lizmat m: sub a($a) { }; a()   # like so
09:41 camelia rakudo-moar c43817ace: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling a() will never work with declared signature ($a)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub a($a) { }; 7⏏5a()   # like so␤»
09:41 lizmat m: sub a(&a) { }; a()   # with & it's a runtime error ?
09:41 camelia rakudo-moar c43817ace: OUTPUT: «Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0␤  in sub a at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
09:41 lizmat hmmm...
09:41 lizmat the latter probably warrants a separate issue
09:42 * lizmat needs to be afk for a bit, and then for a bit longer
09:43 scimon https://www.slideshare.net/SimonProctor8/perl6-signatures : The slides from my talk :)
09:44 masak scimon++ # nice!
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09:49 lizmat notable6: weekly https://www.slideshare.net/SimonProctor8/perl6-signatures
09:49 notable6 lizmat, Noted!
09:52 scimon (Hopefully there will be a video at some point)
09:56 stmuk_ scimon++
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10:01 buggable New CPAN upload: App-Assixt-0.2.3.tar.gz by TYIL https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/T/TY/TYIL/Perl6/App-Assixt-0.2.3.tar.gz
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12:00 DrForr Today's weird idea: Data::Schema, like Test::is-deeply but just checks the layout, not nitpicking over the exact contents. I think is-deeply() has some flags to loosen matching, but this is more along the lines of JSON::Schema.
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12:07 masak DrForr: sounds nice.
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12:16 El_Che huggable: help
12:16 huggable El_Che, nothing found
12:16 El_Che How can I update huggable?
12:16 El_Che huggable: debs
12:16 huggable El_Che, CentOS, Debian, Fedora and Ubuntu Rakudo packages: https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases
12:16 El_Che ^--- outdated
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12:45 tbrowder_ .tell AlexDaniel it looks like the two main toaster hangers right now are OO::Actors and Test::Scheduler, both of which hang while testing in a local repo with the latest stable Rakudo. The other two hangers pass local testing.
12:45 yoleaux tbrowder_: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
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13:00 herby_ o/
13:01 buggable New CPAN upload: ANTLR4-Grammar-0.1.1.tar.gz by JGOFF https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/J/JG/JGOFF/Perl6/ANTLR4-Grammar-0.1.1.tar.gz
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13:44 El_Che jnthn: Cro question. I have a yaml config with a higher level abstraction of routes and e.g. the external commands to call. In this file I define the services to call (/$service) and the parameters it can have (/$service?group=$group&format=$nagios). Now I want to dynamically create routes from this info. I see routes() is a Cro::HTTP::Router::RouteSet under the covers, but everything in this class seems to
13:44 El_Che be private. Is there an straightforward way to do what I want?
13:46 jnthn In HEAD (not yet released) a few things have been made public to facilitate doing such things
13:47 El_Che that great news (the HEAD thing and that you understand the question :) )
13:47 [Coke] jnthn++
13:47 jnthn In part 'cus I've been (privately, no details yet) working on one
13:47 El_Che I'll put this smallish project in the cooler, until that is released
13:47 El_Che looking forward to it
13:47 [Coke] I somehow got signed up to do a talk about Perl 6 at TPC.
13:48 jnthn Though note that a RouteSet is just a Cro::Transform, and you can write your own route processing if that's easier
13:48 jnthn And then mount it at a particular base path using `delegate` inside of a `route` block
13:49 El_Che well, if what you're adding is good sugar I'll wait for that
13:49 El_Che if not I'll go the transform way
13:50 El_Che I just wanted to write something very small typical written in go in perl6+cro
13:51 El_Che I want to move some nagios checks (that need lots of code and secrets) on the nagios machine (handled by an other team) to a small rest service
13:51 El_Che so nagios just queries the rest service to get a status
13:51 El_Che and the perl6 program does the real tests
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13:53 cfa [Coke]: good stuff :)
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13:58 El_Che jnthn: you're making us all very curious :)
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14:10 Geth ¦ doc: e96651e910 | cfa++ | doc/Language/py-nutshell.pod6
14:10 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/py-nutshell
14:10 Geth ¦ doc: Tidy Python list comprehensions, address sink context warnings.
14:10 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e96651e910
14:12 herby_ tyil: it installed successfully :)
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14:14 Geth ¦ doc: 9db0df2854 | cfa++ | doc/Language/rb-nutshell.pod6
14:14 Geth ¦ doc: Skip test for sink context colon pair demonstration.
14:14 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9db0df2854
14:14 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/rb-nutshell
14:19 zostay moritz: thx for the correction, i didn't see that on my quick skim last night ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
14:20 vcv Has anyone run into this test failure with IO::Socket::Async::SSL in ciphers.t? --> # Failed test 'Connection ok when ciphers match up'
14:20 vcv On macOS if that makes a difference
14:20 vcv # at t/ciphers.t line 27 # Server did not provide a certificate to verify
14:29 jnthn vcv: Yes, saw it on Travis OSX of something that depends on that module just yesterday, but don't have access to OSX to go debugging (nor time right now)
14:29 vcv Ok thanks.  I'll dig in and see if I can at least get more information
14:29 jnthn Though it looked like some cipher suite used in the tests maybe isn't available there
14:30 jnthn In a pinch we could skip that test file on OSX
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15:31 [Coke] I have an osx box, what can I do?
15:34 vcv Can you see if the  IO::Socket::Async::SSL tests fail for you?
15:36 Ulti ooc is there a nice way to treat a string as an IO handle in Perl 6?
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15:37 vcv $string.IO ?
15:38 timotimo no, that treats the string as a filename
15:40 Ulti https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/86hoz5/alan_kays_answer_to_why_is_functional_programming/dw5dyk5/?sort=confidence&amp;subredditName=programming&amp;confidence=confidence is hacky and based on the docs but you do actually create a temp file
15:42 [Coke] vcv - wonder if that's the one that's been failing forever. :)
15:43 [Coke] ah, probably not, but testing...
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16:06 [Coke] vcv: https://gist.github.com/coke/ad2ed1cb06897ab43c45b40a5c3bca53
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16:07 [Coke] that's on 2018.02.1-164-g57af8b847
16:12 ufobat___ jnthn, we had a little chat a while ago regarding a feature request of mine for IO::Async::SSL. maybe you can remember: that's what i am looking for: https://github.com/sergot/openssl/pull/57
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16:18 jnthn ufobat___: ah, nice. Unfortunately I'm not likely to have time to help much on that for a few weeks
16:20 ufobat___ thats okay :-)
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16:27 [Coke] vcv - I'm failing even on t/bad-incoming.t
16:27 ufobat___ oh is there a perl6 equivalent of https://play.rust-lang.org/
16:27 AlexDaniel huggable: try
16:27 huggable AlexDaniel, https://f.perlbot.pl/#perl6 https://tio.run/#perl6 https://glot.io/new/perl6 https://ideone.com/
16:28 AlexDaniel ufobat___: ↑
16:29 vcv odd, i dont get those.
16:30 vcv may be a dependency i already had installed via homebrew
16:38 ufobat___ there is an example page on www.perl6.org - woudn't it awesome if you view those example in such a "play" window so anyone can execute it and toy around with it
16:38 AlexDaniel ufobat___: yes
16:39 ufobat___ i think it is like that in the rust book
16:39 AlexDaniel ufobat___: in fact, snippets on rakudo.party do just that (using glot.io API if I recall correctly)
16:39 AlexDaniel ufobat___: e.g. see https://rakudo.party/post/Perl-6-Seqs-Drugs-and-Rock-n-Roll
16:40 AlexDaniel what I'm thinking also… is that perl6.org is maybe not the only place we should be doing that
16:40 AlexDaniel docs.perl6.org is where it's really needed IMO
16:41 ufobat___ would be super cool
16:41 AlexDaniel ufobat___: can you file some tickets asking for these changes?
16:41 ufobat___ sure, but where?
16:42 AlexDaniel ufobat___: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/issues and https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/
16:42 ufobat___ will do :-)
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16:43 AlexDaniel jmerelo: fwiw logs of this channel are available at https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/today
16:44 AlexDaniel jmerelo: and there was an interesting discussion a few moments ago: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2018-03-23#i_15957524
16:45 jmerelo AlexDaniel: getting there. Thanks!
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16:49 jmerelo AlexDaniel: waiting for those issues :-)
16:51 jmerelo I tried to add POD6 to GitHub https://github.com/github/markup/pull/1173
16:51 jmerelo It's been there for 11 days already. Wonder if you can ping the PR or whatever to encourage them to merge it.
16:53 jmerelo Also this one to Linguist, the GitHub language recognizer https://github.com/github/linguist/pull/4066 That was related to the last one. Wonder if you can ping it or something, there's been no answer.
16:57 jmerelo AlexDaniel: any idea of how that is done? Is it through glot.io?
17:02 jmerelo AlexDaniel: also all examples in there have the .pl extension. And it fails in the latest Rakudo...
17:02 jmerelo https://travis-ci.org/perl6/perl6-examples/jobs/349071604
17:02 jmerelo It can be done, of course. It even _should_ be done. However...
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17:04 AlexDaniel jmerelo: oh wow that's pretty cool
17:04 El_Che jmerelo: are you taking requests, nowadays? :)
17:04 jmerelo El_Che: I'm DJing now, so I guess that's what I've got to do.
17:05 * El_Che would like a more verbose NativeCall doc :)
17:05 jmerelo El_Che: I'm only taking requests through the issue system, of course :-)
17:06 El_Che of course you do :)
17:06 jmerelo AlexDaniel: you didn't allow me to close that issue, so one's got to do what one's got to do ...
17:06 AlexDaniel jmerelo: yes :D
17:07 AlexDaniel jmerelo: rakudo.party is open-source, so maybe see https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6.party ?
17:07 AlexDaniel (on how to make snippets executable)
17:08 jmerelo AlexDaniel: It's not obvious looking at the HTML source. Nor the repo. But I guess it must be there... glot.io has got an API, also, which can be used. Either way we'll have to use a hosted service.
17:09 AlexDaniel jmerelo: that's an OK temporary solution IMO
17:10 AlexDaniel simcop2387: do you have any API that we can hook to use https://f.perlbot.pl/#perl6 ?
17:10 AlexDaniel simcop2387: or, more generally, what would you recommend us if we want to make perl 6 snippets on the docs website executable?
17:11 jmerelo AlexDaniel: problem is, it would mean starting a pretty good yak shaving session. Doing that for docs.perl would involve heavy editing of htmlify.p6, which is in need of a rewrite already. But doing that would require a grant all by itself...
17:11 simcop2387 AlexDaniel: https://github.com/perlbot/perlbuut-pastebin/wiki/Paste-API-v1 there's a paste api.  it's not documented but you can also hit the endpoint that the check eval button hits to run things directly too
17:12 jmerelo AlexDaniel: I kind of understand it at a certain level right now, but at another level it's like trying to make a potato bag even. When you push something here, something pops up out there.
17:13 AlexDaniel jmerelo: do we? IMO it can be a pure javascript thingie
17:13 jmerelo AlexDaniel: editing is JS, but then you have to evaluate it somewhere, run the script and get the result back.
17:13 AlexDaniel yes, in JS?
17:14 jmerelo AlexDaniel: Javascript, I mean. Editing is pure front-end, but then running perl6 has to be done on the back end somewhere.
17:14 AlexDaniel jmerelo: the idea is that the user can edit the snippet on the fly, right in the browser, hit the button and get a different result
17:15 AlexDaniel jmerelo: there's nothing that has to be changed in htmlify for that as far as I can see
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17:15 AlexDaniel maybe just adding a css class for code blocks, but that's it
17:15 jmerelo AlexDaniel: there's *always* something that has to be changed in htmlify.
17:15 * AlexDaniel doesn't get it
17:16 tbrowder_ anyone going to TPC NA plan to have a bug-busting party?
17:17 jmerelo AlexDaniel: Well, first you would have to differentiate between Perl6 and non-perl6 code. Then there are code snippets whose test is skipped, which we would probably not want to have people editing... I don't know. If it can be done easily by just adding some JS, let's do that.
17:18 AlexDaniel jmerelo: OK I see, I guess you're right
17:18 jmerelo tbrowder_: my initial intention was going there, I even submitted a tutorial. But then I checked back when the tutorial was actually accepted and flights had gone up to ~ 2K$. So I'd happily attend the party... remotely.
17:19 AlexDaniel jmerelo: exposing the language of the snippet as css class would be useful for other things too, I think
17:19 jmerelo AlexDaniel: there's an issue, and let's give it a try anyway. Maybe I fix links or whatever and all of a sudden that particular feature starts to work. You never know with htmlify
17:20 AlexDaniel jmerelo: I'm thinking of https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1430
17:21 tbrowder_ jmerelo: the only thing stopping me from attending at the moment is my grandson’s birthday on 19 jun, remote attendance would be cool
17:22 jmerelo AlexDaniel: OK, let's see what we can do. Highlighting is done in coffeescript, which is my second least favorite beverage and language combination.
17:23 AlexDaniel :) cool
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17:24 jmerelo tbrowder_: let's set something up then. Would you want to focus on the documentation?
17:25 jmerelo I mean, I'd like to focus on the documentation :-)
17:29 AlexDaniel some performance and reliability fixes would be nice though :P
17:30 tbrowder_ i’m working on pod as slang (VERY slowly), but bug smashing can be fun with company
17:30 tbrowder_ of core devs for advice
17:30 jmerelo AlexDaniel_: of course, but I'm not there yet...
17:31 jmerelo tbrowder_: Of course :-) I'll be definitely attending TPC in Glasgow. We can set aside the day after for a bit of hacking, if you want.
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17:32 AlexDaniel jmerelo: by the way it's nice to have you around :) you're really bringing life into our slightly stagnating doc repo
17:33 AlexDaniel thanks
17:34 jmerelo AlexDaniel: thanks, I'm blushing :-). I'm learning a lot from a lot of great people, including you, so I'm getting more than I'm putting in, I guess. But I hope I can be of help...
17:36 jmerelo AlexDaniel: I'd like to focus on the oldest issues... What do you think about this one? https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/246
17:37 jmerelo AlexDaniel: you did some work on that, what was the main problem there?
17:37 AlexDaniel jmerelo: oh geez, that one… I've spent a few hours trying to get it to work during one of the squashathons
17:37 AlexDaniel jmerelo: the problem is that graphviz itself creates this unreadable mess, and it seems like there's no way to force it to produce something meaningful
17:37 AlexDaniel unless you force nodes into specific ranks
17:38 jmerelo AlexDaniel: Does that happen when there's more than a certain amount of nodes? Or when?
17:39 AlexDaniel jmerelo: yea, when there are lots of nodes in the same rank
17:39 AlexDaniel jmerelo: like https://docs.perl6.org/images/type-graph-Metamodel%3A%3AMethodContainer.svg
17:39 jmerelo AlexDaniel: I see.
17:39 AlexDaniel the graph is correct, but it's just too wide
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17:39 El_Che Just an idea I know it can't be done, becuase of the lang <-> implementation in perl 6. In the Go doc, everything links to the source code of the implementation. That way it's easy to understand how things work when the doc is lacking
17:39 El_Che (more of a musing)
17:40 AlexDaniel El_Che: it can be done, we just have different concepts here
17:40 AlexDaniel El_Che: in our case we should be linking to roast
17:40 AlexDaniel so instead of seeing how it's done you should see what it should do
17:40 El_Che we also have this all mental overhead of nqp
17:40 jmerelo AlexDaniel: you can go ahead and add this thing https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1505. It's just local, and as you say it will help debug.
17:41 AlexDaniel jmerelo: ok will do now
17:41 jmerelo El_Che: I guess if we did that we would point to the Synopsis.
17:41 jmerelo AlexDaniel: Thanks!
17:41 AlexDaniel jmerelo: no, to roast
17:41 cfa hi jmerelo
17:42 AlexDaniel jmerelo: roast is our spec, synopsis are historical speculations
17:42 El_Che jmerelo: a too high level of abstraction
17:42 jmerelo AlexDaniel: right. Pointing to the source code would probably only confuse people.
17:43 jmerelo cfa: hi!
17:43 El_Che hence: just a musing
17:43 AlexDaniel roast is the only promise we have to our users, in a way
17:43 AlexDaniel everything else can be changed without notice, and therefore is insignificant
17:45 jmerelo AlexDaniel: El_Che: code lines can also change, anyhow. Go is probably written mostly in Go, right? Not in not-quite-Go?
17:45 jmerelo How would you call not-quite-go? I'm-right-outta-my-door? not-really-stopped?
17:45 AlexDaniel jmerelo: well, if we really wanted to do that, we'd probably have some markers for docs… but we want to do that at all :)
17:45 AlexDaniel don't*****
17:46 AlexDaniel although maybe some markers in roast can do the trick?
17:46 AlexDaniel dunno
17:46 jmerelo AlexDaniel: definitely we don't want to do that.
17:47 jmerelo AlexDaniel: what I do sometimes is to just search GitHub for where functions are defined. I wouldn't be too difficult to link index entries to a generic search in roast that would include the stuff being defined. Don't know if that would help.
17:50 El_Che jmerelo: go is written in go, yes
17:50 El_Che and the doc corresponds to a released version
17:50 jmerelo El_Che: there you Go :-)
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18:12 jmerelo AlexDaniel: did you try neato? It does not look so bad...
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18:12 AlexDaniel jmerelo: this was with neato I think: http://klonk.bruhat.net/graphviz.png
18:13 AlexDaniel but I'm not sure
18:13 jmerelo AlexDaniel: I take that back. Looks less flat, but horrible.
18:13 jmerelo AlexDaniel: that one does not look so bad...
18:14 AlexDaniel jmerelo: twopi: https://files.progarm.org/grapho.svg circo: https://files.progarm.org/graphH.svg
18:15 jmerelo AlexDaniel: that one does not look so bad...
18:15 jmerelo AlexDaniel: yep, that's neato with overlap=false.
18:16 jmerelo let me know what you think of this one...
18:17 AlexDaniel jmerelo: ideally it should use the default renderer and just put them into separate ranks
18:17 AlexDaniel but at this point any solution will do, I think
18:17 AlexDaniel neato is fine as long as we don't use it for “normal” graphs
18:17 Geth ¦ doc: facc0a65f2 | (JJ Merelo)++ | lib/Perl6/TypeGraph/Viz.pm6
18:17 Geth ¦ doc: Changing dot to neato
18:17 Geth ¦ doc:
18:17 Geth ¦ doc: And also avoiding overlap. Ideally, it should help with #246. If it's
18:17 Geth ¦ doc: OK with everyone, close it.
18:17 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/facc0a65f2
18:18 AlexDaniel jmerelo: OK let it render the docs, but you'll see that it's not going to look very good
18:18 jmerelo AlexDaniel: theoretically, neato is for non-directed and dot for directed.
18:19 jmerelo AlexDaniel: we can try and look at the files to see if it's going to be "flat" and switch to neato.
18:19 AlexDaniel yea
18:19 AlexDaniel that should resolve the issue temporarily, I think
18:19 AlexDaniel until someone comes up with a better idea
18:20 jmerelo Anyway, take a look at using neato everywhere. Maybe it will solve other issues, too. It won't look so "hierarchical"
18:20 AlexDaniel this graph is beautiful currently: https://docs.perl6.org/type/Str#Type_Graph
18:21 AlexDaniel I bet it's going to look like shit with neato :)
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18:22 jmerelo AlexDaniel: shit is in the eye of the beholder...
18:22 AlexDaniel xD
18:22 jmerelo AlexDaniel: but people are used to have it look in a particular way.
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18:26 Geth ¦ doc: b203c81e8d | (JJ Merelo)++ | lib/Perl6/TypeGraph/Viz.pm6
18:26 Geth ¦ doc: Partly reverting while checking other ways
18:26 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b203c81e8d
18:26 Geth ¦ doc: 7fe1758918 | (JJ Merelo)++ | lib/Perl6/TypeGraph/Viz.pm6
18:26 Geth ¦ doc: Eliminates debug code
18:26 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7fe1758918
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18:29 jmerelo AlexDaniel: We can switch to neato only for Metamodel::*
18:31 AlexDaniel jmerelo: I think that's acceptable
18:32 cfa is the idea to use neato for role-heavy stuff?
18:32 jmerelo cfa: for longish stuff.
18:32 cfa long names?
18:33 jmerelo cfa: long graph that makes it look small like this https://docs.perl6.org/type/Metamodel::MultipleInheritance
18:33 AlexDaniel heh yea, that's not good at all: https://imgur.com/a/rbuFI
18:33 jmerelo AlexDaniel: I kinda like it. But still.
18:34 cfa ah, right
18:35 cfa but this strikes me as a byproduct of heavy role usage
18:35 cfa like
18:35 cfa if you mix in a bunch of roles, you'll end up with a wide rather than deep graph
18:35 Geth ¦ doc: ffad298ba8 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | lib/Perl6/TypeGraph/Viz.pm6
18:35 Geth ¦ doc: Keep .dot files for easier debugging
18:35 Geth ¦ doc:
18:35 Geth ¦ doc: Resolves #1505
18:35 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ffad298ba8
18:36 cfa it isn't metamodel specific, it's just that quite a few metamodel roles are documented
18:38 Geth ¦ doc: 833d6077e6 | (JJ Merelo)++ | lib/Perl6/TypeGraph/Viz.pm6
18:39 Geth ¦ doc: Switches to neato only in some cases.
18:39 Geth ¦ doc:
18:39 Geth ¦ doc: Check [this
18:39 Geth ¦ doc: discussion](https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2018-03-23#i_15958129)
18:39 Geth ¦ doc: for background.
18:39 Geth ¦ doc:
18:39 Geth ¦ doc: (Hopefully) closes #246
18:39 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/833d6077e6
18:39 Geth ¦ doc: 9b6ee71377 | (JJ Merelo)++ | lib/Perl6/TypeGraph/Viz.pm6
18:39 Geth ¦ doc: Solves conflict
18:39 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9b6ee71377
18:40 AlexDaniel ahahahahha
18:41 AlexDaniel dammit is there any place that can take svg uploads
18:41 jmerelo AlexDaniel: Is that panic or happiness?
18:41 jmerelo AlexDaniel: GitHub will probably take care of them...
18:41 AlexDaniel this is art: https://files.progarm.org/type-graph-Exception.svg
18:42 AlexDaniel zoom out a little bit
18:42 jmerelo AlexDaniel: that is beautiful in a spidery kind of way...
18:43 jmerelo AlexDaniel: that's been reverted to old ways, anyway. Just the Metamodel files have been changed.
18:44 jmerelo cfa: that might be the case. But if we have many roles, or superclasses, or subclasses, we'll have the same problem.
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18:46 AlexDaniel jmerelo: grep -Po 'width=\K"[0-9]+' html/images/*.svg | sort '-t"' -nk 2
18:47 AlexDaniel jmerelo: https://gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/d1eb9964401bac14a5e6dafad34c0bb4
18:48 jmerelo AlexDaniel: Thanks. So, X::Comp too, right?
18:48 AlexDaniel jmerelo: hm… I think graph generation is really fast, maybe add a quick check for width after every graph is generated?
18:49 AlexDaniel and if it's more than, say, 1000 then rerun with neato
18:54 jmerelo X::OS looks good enough at 1818 https://docs.perl6.org/type/X::OS
18:54 jmerelo I think it's enough if I add X::Comp and Metamodel.
18:54 jmerelo If there's some big change in hierarchy in the future, we can add it. No need to overengineer now
18:55 jmerelo No need to overengineer ever, actually :-)
18:58 Geth ¦ doc: 27f3a151aa | (JJ Merelo)++ | lib/Perl6/TypeGraph/Viz.pm6
18:58 Geth ¦ doc: Adds X::Comp to neato-ized files
18:58 Geth ¦ doc:
18:58 Geth ¦ doc: Check [IRC
18:58 Geth ¦ doc: log](discussion](https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2018-03-23#i_15958129))
18:58 Geth ¦ doc: for discussion. Also related to #246 (although it's closed).
18:58 Geth ¦ doc:
18:58 Geth ¦ doc: Kudos and :+1: to @AlexDaniel for help.
18:58 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/27f3a151aa
18:59 jmerelo If we close just one issue more today we'll get to 900 issues closed :-)
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19:05 jmerelo Which I just did :-) https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/897
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19:13 mscha Any recommended modules to send a (simple text) email from Perl 6?
19:14 jmerelo mscha: Probably this one https://github.com/retupmoca/P6-Net-SMTP
19:15 mscha Thanks, that will probably do.
19:15 jmerelo mscha: Good luck :-)
19:17 perlbot Anonymous pasted a new file at https://f.perlbot.pl/p/iuuqwc -
19:18 [Coke] Hi, Anonymous.
19:21 lichtkind is ther some mainanace on p6c?
19:21 [Coke] ?
19:21 [Coke] lichtkind: what's the issue?
19:23 mcmillhj joined #perl6
19:26 lichtkind [Coke], travis told me: "The program 'perl6' is currently not installed"
19:27 timotimo what does travis have to do with p6c?
19:27 timotimo the actual error message that'll help you is probably further up?
19:27 lichtkind i thought it was in some sort hosted there
19:27 timotimo haha, no, we do not own travis
19:28 lichtkind no i mean the service is hosted there
19:28 lichtkind yes it failed to compile rakudo seems the bleed is broken
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19:29 timotimo not sure what you mean by "the service"
19:30 lichtkind running the travis smoking has to run on some machine
19:31 timotimo https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/reference/overview/
19:31 timotimo they use GCE and EC2, and no clue what they mean by "Virtual machine" for their OSX machines
19:32 timotimo maybe they just have a room full of macbooks or something
19:32 lichtkind allright
19:36 mscha jmerelo: got it working, thanks!
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19:46 jmerelo mscha: glad to hear that :-)
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20:34 rindolf lichtkind: hi, sup?
20:35 lichtkind rindolf cheers
20:36 lichtkind coding my p6 matrix lib
20:36 rindolf lichtkind: ah
20:36 xinming joined #perl6
20:37 rindolf lichtkind: are you binding to lapack or blas?
20:38 lichtkind real men implement
20:38 lichtkind the whole purpose is to lern math
20:42 El_Che or meth
20:44 rindolf lichtkind: i see
20:45 rindolf lichtkind: have fun
20:45 lichtkind thank you
20:46 lichtkind no meth destroys human
20:46 mr_ron joined #perl6
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21:02 lichtkind rindolf, : you come to gummersbach?
21:03 rindolf lichtkind: no
21:03 rindolf lichtkind: what is it?
21:05 lichtkind rindolf, i thought you german there is the GPW next week
21:08 rindolf lichtkind: no, i'm israeli
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22:33 lizmat hmmm... perl6.org and friends appear to be down for me
22:33 lizmat is that just for me?
22:34 AlexDaniel lizmat: not just you
22:34 lizmat paging moritz timeless
22:34 lizmat timotimo
22:34 jnthn https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/perl6.org
22:34 jnthn (And yes, down for me too)
22:34 timotimo let me look if the hosts are in good health
22:34 jnthn But...hm, various things are slow for me
22:34 timotimo m( virt-manager crashes on startup
22:35 timotimo why not ssh x forwarding
22:38 mcmillhj joined #perl6
22:40 timotimo it stole my mouse pointer
22:40 pharv joined #perl6
22:42 pharv_ joined #perl6
22:42 timotimo trying to reset the www host
22:43 cdg joined #perl6
22:44 timotimo ok, perl6.org is back up
22:44 Juerd Yay
22:44 rindolf timotimo: thanks
22:46 timeless lizmat: ??
22:46 * timeless has nothing to do with the infrastructure
22:47 timotimo timeless: i think she meant to ping me and mistabbed
22:47 timeless K. Night
22:48 timotimo how can night when timeless
22:48 timotimo :)
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22:59 lizmat timeless: sorry, I mistabbed indeed
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23:37 AlexDaniel squashable6: next
23:37 squashable6 AlexDaniel, Next SQUASHathon in 13 days and ≈10 hours (2018-04-07 UTC-12⌁UTC+14). See https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Monthly-Bug-Squash-Day
23:38 AlexDaniel thoughts for the next squashathon?
23:38 lizmat joined #perl6
23:44 MasterDuke maybe repos in the perl6 org that are smaller/we haven't done before? like features, etc
23:47 mcmillhj joined #perl6
23:50 AlexDaniel MasterDuke: I don't think we have enough small repos that are fun enough to work with
23:50 AlexDaniel but it's an interesting idea
23:50 AlexDaniel buggable: tag testneeded
23:50 buggable AlexDaniel, There are 49 tickets tagged with TESTNEEDED; See http://fail.rakudo.party/t/TESTNEEDED for details
23:51 AlexDaniel hmmm
23:51 AlexDaniel maybe testneeded squashathon again?
23:52 SCHAPiE joined #perl6
23:52 AlexDaniel we just had it two months ago
23:52 AlexDaniel but then, now we have even more tickets to close, hmm…
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