Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2018-04-17

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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00:01 MasterDuke samcv: have you seen https://probablydance.com/2017/02/26/i-wrote-the-fastest-hashtable/ ?
00:02 samcv no i haven't
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00:04 Herby_ I need a little help with completing this grammar
00:05 Herby_ https://gist.github.com/sylints/2936b68a0b9b46131df71f145dd47797
00:05 Herby_ as a learning exercise, I'm trying to parse torrent file names and extra information.  Its a JS and Python library that gave me the idea: https://github.com/divijbindlish/parse-torrent-name
00:06 Herby_ my problem is that when using a grammar, how do I account for an unknown string?  The way the python library handles it is extracting all the other relevant parts from the file name, and then the leftover part must be the title
00:06 MasterDuke samcv: i believe jnthn has referenced it as a potential source of ideas for redoing MVMHash entirely
00:06 Herby_ at the bottom of the gist, you can see it two examples.  when I don't include an unknown title, it matches fine. if I add a title, it fails because I can't figure out how to account for it
00:07 samcv MasterDuke: that would be neat
00:08 MasterDuke Herby_: try .subparse
00:08 Herby_ hmmmm
00:11 MasterDuke Herby_: .parse *must* match the entire input, .subparse will match just parts of the input
00:12 Herby_ I was hoping that there was a regex pattern that I could have be checked last in the grammar, as essentially a "catch all"
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00:12 Herby_ but my regex skills are weak and I don't think thats doable
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00:15 MasterDuke well, you could just add .* at the end
00:15 MasterDuke but what do you mean "checked"?
00:18 Herby_ not sure. i'm flailing a bit :)
00:18 Herby_ maybe grammars aren't the best way to tackle this. maybe the Python route of using for loops and regex might be better
00:18 Herby_ let me rephrase: maybe grammars arent the best for my current skill set
00:19 MasterDuke have you read moritz++'s grammar book?
00:20 MasterDuke but .subparse didn't do what you want?
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00:20 Herby_ MasterDuke: I did buy moritz book. Just started it
00:21 MasterDuke cool, he'd be much better help than i
00:21 Herby_ fiddling with subparse now
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00:25 Herby_ MasterDuke: thanks for taking a look
00:26 MasterDuke welcome
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00:31 Geth ¦ marketing: dbe669e1b2 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
00:31 Geth ¦ marketing: Implement thumblerizer
00:31 Geth ¦ marketing: review: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/commit/dbe669e1b2
00:31 Zoffix left #perl6
00:36 Geth ¦ rakudo.org: e307ea61e5 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
00:36 Geth ¦ rakudo.org: [REAPP] Add -L to curl so it follows any redirects
00:36 Geth ¦ rakudo.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/rakudo.org/commit/e307ea61e5
00:38 mcmillhj joined #perl6
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00:44 Guest94188 can perl6 read keyboard interactions? getc does not detect shift for example
00:47 Guest94188 getc also needs the user to press enter
00:48 buggable New CPAN upload: PDF-Class-0.1.7.tar.gz by WARRINGD http://modules.perl6.org/dist/PDF::Class:cpan:WARRINGD
00:48 MasterDuke Guest94188: i think there's a module that provides lower level access
00:48 lookatme the termios ?
00:48 MasterDuke buggable: eco termios
00:48 buggable MasterDuke, Found 2 results: Term::termios, Term::termios. See https://modules.perl6.org/s/termios
00:49 MasterDuke yeah. i haven't used it though, so can't provide any actual help
00:49 geekosaur shift requires event / gui level
00:49 timotimo https://docs.perl6.org/routine/getc#Buffering_terminals - Guest94188 check out these two sections
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00:51 BenGoldberg I would suggest looking through the modules in https://modules.perl6.org/t/TERMINAL and seeing which one best suits your ultimate task, rather than saying, "I need getc" and then trying to solve your task with it.
00:52 BenGoldberg Also, these: https://modules.perl6.org/search/?q=term
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00:56 Guest94188 how do you set the terminal to "unbuffered"?
00:56 mcmillhj joined #perl6
00:57 timotimo you need termios for that
00:58 Guest94188 is that `$termios.setattr(:DRAIN)`?
00:58 pilne so, silly question... what's the general update procedure for when a new rakudo version comes out? delete and a fresh make/install?
00:59 Guest94188 is it possible to capture magic sysrq keys before it reisubs?
01:00 geekosaur only by hackingt he kernel
01:00 Guest94188 lets say you want to make an interactive tutorial where the learner is in a simulation mode
01:01 geekosaur you fully expect that every program gets to see every single keypress, including magic sysrq and other special kernel overrides?
01:01 geekosaur or keys that mean things only to gui programs, like shift, that literally cannot be delivered to a program in terminal mode, only in gui mode?
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01:15 Herby_ pilne: I've pondered that myself. I don't have an answer that I'm confident in :)
01:16 pilne i'm attempting to use "checkinstall" to make that process a bit easier for myself in the future if that is what it comes down to (:
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01:18 Herby_ clear
01:18 Herby_ whoops!
01:24 BenGoldberg If you use rakudobrew, you can have multiple versions installed simultaneously.
01:24 Geth ¦ doc: 033880b1bc | 陈梓立++ | doc/Type/utf8.pod6
01:24 Geth ¦ doc: Eliminates useless X<> tag
01:24 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/033880b1bc
01:24 Geth ¦ doc: 0827139c57 | 陈梓立++ | htmlify.p6
01:24 Geth ¦ doc: Merge branch 'master' of https://github.com/perl6/doc
01:24 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/type/utf8
01:24 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0827139c57
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01:30 pilne i thought rakudobrew was not reccomended at one point in the recent past?
01:30 pilne or am i thinking of a different tool?
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01:31 geekosaur rakudobrew is not generally recommended for perl6 users as opposed to developers, because it complicates a number of things for users
01:31 geekosaur but allows developers to keep multiple versions around and switch between them easily
01:32 geekosaur (the way it does that is known to interfere with things like automatic usage messages)
01:33 pilne fair enough
01:33 pilne so is the general process (for now) to just do a make uninstall with the old version, and make install with the new?
01:37 Herby_ pilne: I might be imagining this but I think I remember being told just install the new version over the old
01:37 Herby_ but if you do have an easy way to uninstall the old, then might as well (i'm a linux rookie)
01:38 pilne i'm mostly a "i don't like windows" linux user, so i'm far from advanced, despite being advanced in my years :D
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01:56 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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02:26 Herby_ m: my $s = "test's()z"; $s.=subst(/[\'\(\)]/, '', :g); put $s;
02:26 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «test's()z␤»
02:26 Herby_ ...
02:26 Herby_ if I have a list of characters I'd like to remove from a string, whats a good way to go about it?
02:26 Herby_ for instance, if I have to remove any of these characters: . \ / ( )
02:27 Herby_ m: my $s = "test's()z"; $s.=subst(/<[\'\(\)]>/, '', :g); put $s;
02:27 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «testsz␤»
02:28 Herby_ :)
02:28 geekosaur https://docs.perl6.org/routine/trans
02:29 Herby_ thanks, I hadn't seen that method before
02:29 Herby_ do you know how it compares in performance to .subst?
02:30 geekosaur I would expect it to be faster
02:30 geekosaur but don;'t know for certain. but avoiding the regex (list of chars instead) should count for a lot
02:31 Herby_ i'll give it a whirl. thanks!
02:31 Herby_ i hope to have this project done by the end of the week so I can get some feedback
02:31 Herby_ I think my regex mutilation is going to make some people cry
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04:08 Geth ¦ marketing: 78dc1d71b4 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 10 files
04:08 Geth ¦ marketing: Implement pages preview pop outs
04:08 Geth ¦ marketing: review: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/commit/78dc1d71b4
04:14 mcmillhj joined #perl6
04:14 hahainternet i just want to pop in and say how much i appreciate the weekly updates still
04:14 hahainternet i don't have time to keep up with things as much as i'd like
04:14 hahainternet and it's lovely to have somewhere to read concise details
04:15 donpdonp hahainternet: that sounds good, where do I find the updates?
04:18 hahainternet donpdonp: https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/
04:19 donpdonp thx
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05:55 Geth ¦ doc: JJ self-assigned Create a new page with info about OS portability https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/670
06:00 El_Che Zoffix: I see you already changed the curl instructions. THx
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06:15 Geth ¦ doc/master: 6 commits pushed by (JJ Merelo)++
06:15 Geth ¦ doc/master: 6f2c5f49d6 | [Build] Test docker for shippable
06:15 Geth ¦ doc/master: fb00a53695 | [Build] Switching to specific image
06:15 Geth ¦ doc/master: da4197748e | [Build] tags image
06:15 Geth ¦ doc/master: a25bd838c7 | [Build] forces pull
06:15 Geth ¦ doc/master: ce8e782812 | [Build] Adds caching to shippable
06:15 Geth ¦ doc/master: 68d04875c0 | Removes trailing whitespace
06:15 Geth ¦ doc/master: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/0827139c57a3...68d04875c059
06:19 llfourn m: my \⍴ = 42
06:19 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed my␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my7⏏5 \⍴ = 42␤»
06:21 moritz .uni ⍴
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06:21 moritz .u ⍴
06:21 yoleaux U+2374 APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL RHO [So] (⍴)
06:21 moritz not an identifier
06:22 moritz m: multi term:sym<⍴> { 42 }
06:22 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: ( no output )
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06:22 moritz m: multi term:sym<⍴> { 42 }; say ⍴
06:22 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «42␤»
06:29 jmerelo I've deleted Codeship from the perl6/doc repo integrations. It was actually doing nothing, and I couldn't find the way to make a fast test using Docker, since it does not have Docker installed
06:32 TEttinger but moritz! rho, rho rho of x, always equals one, merrily merrily merrily merrily APL is fun!
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06:37 moritz TEttinger: you should put that on rhosettapoems.org :-)
06:38 TEttinger it's one of a few almost-well-known APL quotes. along with "Tis the dream of every hacker / before his day is done / to write three lines of APL and make the damn thing run"
06:39 TEttinger the other quotes being pure profanity and howls
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06:50 moritz sounds like a fun culture all around
06:54 Geth ¦ doc: JJ self-assigned Suggestions for expanding the Community page https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1920
06:55 Geth ¦ doc: ae860521ba | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/community.pod6
06:55 Geth ¦ doc: Expands the community page
06:55 Geth ¦ doc:
06:55 Geth ¦ doc: With links to the perl6.org community page, and Perl 6 weekly. Closes #1920.
06:55 Geth ¦ doc:
06:55 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/community
06:55 Geth ¦ doc: If anyone's got more suggestions, feel free to reopen and/or make a
06:55 Geth ¦ doc: pull request.
06:55 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ae860521ba
06:59 TEttinger moritz: to be fair, the howls are only from newcomers who are trying to port an old hand's codebase after they retired, and the profanity is mild compared to the obscenity of RPG programmers
07:00 El_Che omg, I just got travis + bintray working for creating rakudo repos
07:00 El_Che (poc for now, to see how it works)
07:00 jmerelo El_Che: what's bintray? Kudos, OTOH
07:01 El_Che jmerelo: an artifact distributor (e.g. maven, rpm, deb, repos, etc)
07:01 El_Che they have a free model for foss
07:01 stmuk_ I can't install p6doc on 2018.01 anymore "Expected MAST::Frame"
07:01 El_Che integration with travis means a lot of yaml, json, gpg and api keys :)
07:03 stmuk_ this is probably a good argument for increased doc bundling since anyone installing a rakudo release won't necessarily be able to install docs a few months later
07:03 llfourn moritz: so not every greek letter is an identifier?
07:03 llfourn is there any reason for that?
07:03 moritz llfourn: oh, greek letters are identifiers
07:04 moritz llfourn: but the character you posted was a U+2374 APL FUNCTIONAL SYMBOL RHO, not a greek character
07:04 jmerelo moritz++
07:04 moritz m: my \ρ = 42; say ρ
07:04 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «42␤»
07:04 llfourn m: my \ρ = 42
07:04 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: ( no output )
07:04 moritz works fine
07:04 llfourn ahhhh
07:04 moritz .u ρ
07:04 yoleaux U+03C1 GREEK SMALL LETTER RHO [Ll] (ρ)
07:04 llfourn thanks moritz++
07:04 moritz llfourn: you're welcome :-)
07:05 llfourn I'm kind of curious about this APL and why it needed a special rho
07:06 llfourn is that a path I want to walk down?
07:06 jmerelo llfourn: it's an 80's language that uses lots of special symbols for operations. You probably don't want to go that way.
07:07 llfourn jmerelo: thanks!
07:07 llfourn feels good to be a 90s kid
07:08 jmerelo llfourn: yep, you didn't have BASIC as a first language...
07:09 * moritz had QBASIC as the first language
07:09 llfourn no I had visual basic as my first language lol
07:09 moritz line numbers were optional, yay!
07:09 * jmerelo feels old
07:09 El_Che jmerelo: don't let these hipsters let you down!
07:10 jmerelo El_Che: all those memories are coming back... Like reserving <1000 line numbers for subroutines in ZX Spectrum's Basic... Or learning that GOTO was bad...
07:11 jmerelo Or the joy of using a computer called "NewBrain".
07:11 jmerelo Amazing graphics, BTW, https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grundy_NewBrain
07:12 jmerelo Sorry, that's Spanish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grundy_NewBrain
07:12 El_Che wow
07:12 El_Che you *are* old
07:12 * El_Che ducks :)
07:12 El_Che just kidding :)
07:13 jmerelo El_Che: that's simply a fact...
07:13 El_Che I find it funny my kids say that the radio "is crashing" when there is some interference
07:15 jmerelo El_Che: that's rich :-)
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07:21 Geth ¦ doc: JJ self-assigned language/modules is too weak on tooling https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/431
07:22 Geth ¦ doc: ccce1a2239 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/modules.pod6
07:22 Geth ¦ doc: Adds a section on using `zef`
07:22 Geth ¦ doc:
07:22 Geth ¦ doc: Hopefully, closes #431. Please feel free to reopen and/or change.
07:22 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ccce1a2239
07:22 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/modules
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07:34 stmuk_ jmerelo: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-pod-to-bigpage/issues/15
07:37 El_Che stmuk_: oh
07:37 El_Che that's sad
07:38 jmerelo stmuk_: I think it can be safely removed. I'll try that.
07:41 stmuk_ yes the test uses http://http.perl6.org/robots.txt correctly
07:41 stmuk_ El_Che: it's sad we are cross platform and don't just work on linux? :)
07:42 El_Che sad the my windows brothers and systems don't get ssl
07:42 El_Che :)
07:43 stmuk_ probably the correct solution would be to use the windows native ssl library but I've no idea how to do that
07:43 stmuk_ or particular interest in doing it :)
07:43 jmerelo stmuk_: pardon me if I'm wrong, but isn't SSL supposed to be deprecated in favor of TLS?
07:44 stmuk_ I'm using SSL loosely to mean TLS just like everyone else does like the OpenSSL people for example
07:44 jmerelo stmuk_: ah, OK :-)
07:45 jmerelo So, all this SSL dependence thing is due to portability problems? Does it work on macs?
07:45 stmuk_ macOS uses openssl
07:54 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage: JJ++ created pull request #16: Removes SSL module dependency
07:54 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-pod-to-bigpage/pull/16
07:54 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage: d912bf170d | (JJ Merelo)++ | META6.json
07:54 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage: Removes dependency from IO::Socket::SSL
07:54 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage:
07:54 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage: Which probably was there for no reason, anyway. Refs #15
07:54 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-pod-to-bigpage/commit/d912bf170d
07:54 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage: 01d69594f9 | (JJ Merelo)++ | README.md
07:54 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage: Improves documentation
07:55 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-pod-to-bigpage/commit/01d69594f9
07:55 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage: 397bfaf5f6 | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 2 files
07:55 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage: Merge pull request #16 from JJ/master
07:55 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage:
07:55 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage: Removes SSL module dependency
07:55 Geth ¦ perl6-pod-to-bigpage: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-pod-to-bigpage/commit/397bfaf5f6
07:55 jmerelo stmuk_: done. Thanks for the heads up :-)
07:56 stmuk_ jmerelo++
08:01 Geth ¦ doc: JJ self-assigned Blob.allocate not documented https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/917
08:02 Geth ¦ doc: 201d90a4ba | (JJ Merelo)++ | shippable.yml
08:02 Geth ¦ doc: [Shippable] Cache modules dir
08:02 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/201d90a4ba
08:02 Geth ¦ doc: f7d88ec0a2 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Channel.pod6
08:02 Geth ¦ doc: Clarifies `list` for Channel
08:02 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/type/Channel
08:02 Geth ¦ doc:
08:02 Geth ¦ doc: Based on @jnthn answer. Closes #879.
08:02 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f7d88ec0a2
08:02 Geth ¦ doc: f1207d9bfb | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Blob.pod6
08:02 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/type/Blob
08:03 Geth ¦ doc: Checking if `allocate` is documented.
08:03 Geth ¦ doc:
08:03 Geth ¦ doc: It apparently is, so I have just improved the description based on the
08:03 Geth ¦ doc: linked code. Closes #917.
08:03 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f1207d9bfb
08:04 jmerelo I'm test-driving shippable to see if I can get a faster test there but it's rather useless unless I make the container based build work (which I haven't) https://app.shippable.com/github/JJ/doc/runs?branchName=master
08:04 jmerelo There are two ways of using containers: one, provide your own container. However, it's got to be based in Ubuntu, and the `doccer` container right now is based on Alpine
08:06 jmerelo Two, use your own container, but since Shippable also launches a container there's a bit of directory mounting involved I haven't been able to fathom so far. Here's the issue I have opened https://github.com/Shippable/support/issues/4270
08:06 jmerelo Last thing I've tested is to cache perl6 modules, which takes 4 minutes. But it simply does not work, or I couldn't make it work.
08:07 jmerelo So now we have a Shippable based test, which runs only prove, and is slower than the Docker-based full tests. But at least it runs in parallel.
08:07 jmerelo Any suggestion will be appreciated.
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08:28 AlexDaniel jmerelo: what editor are you using?
08:28 El_Che releasable6: stztus
08:28 releasable6 El_Che, I cannot recognize this command. See wiki for some examples: https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/wiki/Releasable
08:28 El_Che releasable6: status
08:28 releasable6 El_Che, Next release in ≈4 days and ≈10 hours. 6 blockers. 224 out of 239 commits logged
08:28 releasable6 El_Che, Details: https://gist.github.com/27c21c591055cd270f4556b1167fd384
08:29 Geth ¦ doc/master: 4 commits pushed by (Luca Ferrari)++
08:29 Geth ¦ doc/master: 781f351b74 | Remove smile in native call array documentation.
08:29 Geth ¦ doc/master: fadf3c94db | Itemize the CArray methods.
08:29 Geth ¦ doc/master: 939cc25374 | Provide a simple example to demonstrate and document CArray main methods.
08:29 Geth ¦ doc/master: 0cabf21d57 | Make it clear that CArray is a Perl 6 object.
08:29 Geth ¦ doc/master: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/f1207d9bfba1...0cabf21d5710
08:29 AlexDaniel El_Che: heh, you can misspell “releasable6” but not “status”… that's LTA
08:30 AlexDaniel rlesable6: status
08:30 AlexDaniel rleasable6: status
08:30 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Next release in ≈4 days and ≈10 hours. 6 blockers. 224 out of 239 commits logged
08:30 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Details: https://gist.github.com/b28a15f93f6c6c6ace2f4fc5b2b2a34c
08:30 AlexDaniel El_Che: :) https://github.com/perl6/whateverable/issues/305#issuecomment-381898110
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08:49 jmerelo AlexDaniel: right now, El_Che's packages, but the problem is it takes a while to install modules.
08:49 AlexDaniel jmerelo: no I mean text editor
08:51 jmerelo AlexDaniel: Ah, sorry. In general, I use emacs, but I tend to use Atom for pod6, since emacs support for that is nil.
08:51 jmerelo AlexDaniel: why?
08:51 jmerelo AlexDaniel: you want to prove hypothesis that Emacs is old folk's preferred editor?
08:52 AlexDaniel jmerelo: there's “Show Invisibles” textbox in Editor Settings
08:53 AlexDaniel or maybe “showInvisibles: true” in the config, I don't know really
08:53 AlexDaniel use it, please :)
08:54 jmerelo Emacs does, but Atom does not.
08:54 jmerelo I think I know what you mean...
08:54 AlexDaniel that's for Atom :)
08:57 El_Che jmerelo: modules? It would be trivial to build a deb with the included modules
08:57 El_Che jmerelo: I probably have a private repo doing that :)
08:58 Geth ¦ doc: 1a66f2c942 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Blob.pod6
08:58 Geth ¦ doc: Eliminates trailing whitespace
08:58 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1a66f2c942
08:58 Geth ¦ doc: 7799883ec8 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/nativecall.pod6
08:58 Geth ¦ doc: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/doc
08:58 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/type/Blob
08:58 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/nativecall
08:58 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7799883ec8
08:59 jmerelo AlexDaniel: I have found some of them. Thanks for the tip. Any other place where I should take them off?
08:59 AlexDaniel jmerelo: no, just please keep that option enabled in your editor at all times, so that you're not producing any extra :)
09:00 jmerelo AlexDaniel++
09:03 El_Che AlexDaniel: autch, me bad typist
09:04 jmerelo p6: my Blob $b0 = Blob.allocate(10,0)
09:04 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: ( no output )
09:04 jmerelo p6: my Blob $b0 = Blob.allocate(10,0); $b0
09:05 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of $b0 in sink context (line 1)␤»
09:05 jmerelo p6: my Blob $b0 = Blob.allocate(10,0); $b0.say
09:05 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «Blob:0x<00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00>␤»
09:07 Geth ¦ doc: a6c13ad466 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Blob.pod6
09:07 Geth ¦ doc: Adds example to Blob
09:07 Geth ¦ doc:
09:07 Geth ¦ doc: After this question
09:07 Geth ¦ doc: https://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.users/2018/04/msg4731.html
09:07 Geth ¦ doc: in the perl6-users list
09:07 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/a6c13ad466
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09:29 jkramer For the record, in vim I use this for whitespaces, maybe someone can use it: https://gist.github.com/jkramer/65abdae02e714fd60f7fb666aa077e73
09:32 Juerd I have a simpler one: match WhitespaceEOL /\s\+$/
09:33 Juerd Do you happen to know what the extra metachars in your vim regex do?
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09:34 jkramer Juerd: I was just thinking about that too when I looked at it, I actually don't know. :) I copied that snippet to my config from somewhere else ~10 years ago :D
09:36 jkramer From help: \%#     Matches with the cursor position.
09:36 Juerd In fact, your regex doesn't seem to work here...
09:36 Altreus vim has list and listchars
09:37 Altreus one of which is trailing whitespace
09:37 Altreus set listchars=eol:⏎,tab:▸–,trail:—,extends:⇉,precedes:⇇,nbsp:␣
09:37 lizmat joined #perl6
09:37 Altreus not that this works
09:37 Altreus I keep meaning to figure out why
09:37 * lizmat clickbaits https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2018/04/16/2018-16-so-that/
09:37 yoleaux 16 Apr 2018 21:44Z <timotimo> lizmat: i think "the fix makes moarvm significantly faster" is wrong, the performance difference is not noticable
09:39 lizmat .tell timotimo updated
09:39 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
09:40 Juerd Altreus: I can't use listchars because I like to copy/paste snippets between terminals
09:40 Juerd Altreus: So I have all my whitespace highlights set up as color coding only
09:41 Altreus Ah, I can't do that anyway because I usually have something else in the way, like NERDTree or line numbers
09:41 Altreus for some reason I can't easily turn off line numbering when I have it in relative mode
09:41 Altreus vim is kinda pesky tbh
09:42 Juerd https://gist.github.com/Juerd/cc4a187aeb5c6fd8d0ff68d31e53e30b
09:42 Juerd This is also why I don't use line numbering, indeed :)
09:43 tyil Altreus: cant you just copy it into the system clipboard buffer? https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3961859/how-to-copy-to-clipboard-in-vim#3961954
09:43 Altreus I'm not usually running vim on the system I'm typing on
09:43 tyil Juerd: *
09:43 Altreus It doesn't work across SSHes, or even tmux windows, apparently
09:44 tyil that could be an issue
09:44 tyil I generally run vim locally, so it works pretty well
09:44 tyil I guess I could make a plugin to send the selection to a paste site and have vim :echo the url
09:44 Juerd tyil: I probably could, but two decades of using select+paste with the mouse have left me unwilling to learn a different method for each program :)
09:45 Altreus or just use emacs in vim mode :D
09:45 jkramer Juerd: It works for me. I think sometimes vim doesn't refresh the highlighting instantly sometimes, try ctrl+l.
09:45 tyil Altreus: thats just evil
09:45 tyil if you know what I mean :')
09:46 Altreus I like the cut of your jib
09:46 Juerd jkramer: Ah, indeed, with ^L it does show. Interesting that it needs that; my simpler regex doesn't
09:53 jkramer Juerd: Happens only sometimes apparently. I only noticed for the first time when I just tested it.
09:53 Juerd lizmat: Thanks for yet another weekly :)
09:54 jkramer Although I don't know what the extra stuff after \s\+ is supposed to do, so I guess I'll just use yours from now on. :)
09:54 lizmat Juerd: you're very welcome :-)
09:55 Juerd jkramer: It seems to mean: if the cursor is at the end of the line. But it doesn't do that.
09:55 Juerd Or maybe if the cursor is not at the end of the line
09:55 Juerd Vim regexes are a much higher level voodoo than Perl regexes
09:58 jkramer Juerd: I guess it's supposed to prevent highlighting spaces at EOL when you're still editing the line so not every space you type will instantly be highlighted as error.
09:58 jkramer But yeah, doesn't seem to work that well. :)
10:04 Geth ¦ rakudo.org: 8507e7436d | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | templates/files-rakudo-third-party.html.ep
10:04 Geth ¦ rakudo.org: [REAPP] Fix OpenSUSE URL
10:04 Geth ¦ rakudo.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/rakudo.org/commit/8507e7436d
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10:57 Geth ¦ marketing: b6c184cbe3 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | web/assets/sass/main.scss
10:57 Geth ¦ marketing: Toss ded CSS
10:57 Geth ¦ marketing: review: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/commit/b6c184cbe3
11:15 Zoffix joined #perl6
11:18 Zoffix .ask [Coke] hypothetical scenario: someone is organizing a Perl 6 event and wants to make prints of some of the marketing materials in our marketing repo. Would TPF be willing to pay the printing costs? If yes, what's the process for getting that funding?
11:18 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to [Coke].
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12:02 scovit Hello, when one would use native arrays and when one would use Bufs?
12:04 moritz native arrays when you want to do numerical calculations with the elements
12:05 moritz and Bufs when doing binary IO
12:20 scovit are there any issues in doing binary IO with native arrays?
12:21 moritz I don't think it's implemented
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12:28 timotimo not quite
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12:28 timotimo Buf[int8] and my int8 @foo are almost indistinguishable to the ops that do IO
12:29 timotimo they don't look at classes, they only look at REPRs and the size of the individual elements
12:29 timotimo and those are both VMArray under the hood
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12:38 buggable New CPAN upload: Lingua-Stem-Es-0.0.1.tar.gz by CHSANCH https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/C/CH/CHSANCH/Perl6/Lingua-Stem-Es-0.0.1.tar.gz
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13:30 Geth ¦ doc: b12182b88d | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | 3 files
13:30 Geth ¦ doc: whitespace
13:30 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b12182b88d
13:30 Geth ¦ doc: 94ce89fe67 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | 2 files
13:30 Geth ¦ doc: This isn't Perl 6 code
13:30 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/94ce89fe67
13:30 Geth ¦ doc: 31641d8602 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Type/Blob.pod6
13:30 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/type/Blob
13:30 Geth ¦ doc: Fix compile time error in code sample
13:30 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/31641d8602
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13:32 [Coke] .tell jmerelo you can test your local doc changes with the full test suite with this: https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#running-tests
13:32 yoleaux 11:18Z <Zoffix> [Coke]: hypothetical scenario: someone is organizing a Perl 6 event and wants to make prints of some of the marketing materials in our marketing repo. Would TPF be willing to pay the printing costs? If yes, what's the process for getting that funding?
13:32 yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to jmerelo.
13:34 [Coke] zoffix: I'd talk to the events committee. (I've heard it called that, but don't see that here: http://www.perlfoundation.org/who_s_who)
13:35 [Coke] (maybe it's really "conferences" ?)
13:44 lucasb joined #perl6
13:46 lucasb Seems like some JS table sorting magic is happening in the operator precedence table at https://docs.perl6.org/language/operators
13:46 lucasb they get sorted by associativity, and NOT from tightest to loosest like I would expect
13:46 lucasb with JS turned off, it sorts correctly
13:47 lucasb anyone can confirm what I'm seeing?
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14:09 Geth ¦ doc: 684d429ce5 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | assets/js/main.js
14:09 Geth ¦ doc: Don't sort operators precedence table
14:09 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/684d429ce5
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14:21 Geth ¦ perl6.org: ccworld1000++ created pull request #106: Chinese translation resources
14:21 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/pull/106
14:26 Geth ¦ perl6.org: f693a6332f | CC++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/resources/index.html
14:26 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Chinese translation resources
14:26 Geth ¦ perl6.org:
14:26 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Chinese translation resources (中文翻译资源)
14:26 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/f693a6332f
14:26 Geth ¦ perl6.org: ad5d990ad3 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/resources/index.html
14:26 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Merge pull request #106 from ccworld1000/patch-1
14:26 Geth ¦ perl6.org:
14:26 Geth ¦ perl6.org: Chinese translation resources
14:26 Geth ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/ad5d990ad3
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14:49 [Coke] zoffix: should that have been an && or an || ?
14:49 [Coke] (line 15 of https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/684d429ce5)
14:50 Zoffix joined #perl6
14:51 Zoffix [Coke]: &&: "where first column's header is 'A' and second colums's header is 'Level'; don't set sorting"
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15:19 [Coke] ah, misread the depth there. Thanks.
15:20 Geth ¦ marketing: f20cddd2ee | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 12 files
15:20 Geth ¦ marketing: Toss Rakudo/6lang "Concise" posters
15:20 Geth ¦ marketing:
15:20 Geth ¦ marketing: Keep messaging consistent, until official marketing alias exists
15:20 Geth ¦ marketing: review: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/commit/f20cddd2ee
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15:24 Geth ¦ marketing: 3c33982543 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 7 files
15:24 Geth ¦ marketing: Add "Perl 6 Concise" poster
15:24 Geth ¦ marketing: review: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/commit/3c33982543
15:25 vcv joined #perl6
15:26 Geth ¦ marketing: a4ea563b7f | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 32 files
15:26 Geth ¦ marketing: Organize archive into material types
15:26 Geth ¦ marketing: review: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/commit/a4ea563b7f
15:27 Geth ¦ marketing: f68fe7b60e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 70 files
15:27 Geth ¦ marketing: Move SQUASHathon posters to archive
15:27 Geth ¦ marketing:
15:27 Geth ¦ marketing: We don't make 'em anymore (kinda'f a PITA to make them monthly).
15:27 Geth ¦ marketing: review: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/commit/f68fe7b60e
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15:53 lucasb Thanks Zoffix++ for fixing the operator table
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16:18 Geth ¦ marketing: c50da67681 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 13 files
16:18 Geth ¦ marketing: Add new "Regex Poster"
16:18 Geth ¦ marketing: review: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/commit/c50da67681
16:21 Geth ¦ museum-items: c204e4666d | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 2009/Periodic-Table-of-Operators.md
16:21 Geth ¦ museum-items: Create Periodic-Table-of-Operators.md
16:21 Geth ¦ museum-items: review: https://github.com/perl6/museum-items/commit/c204e4666d
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16:33 Geth ¦ doc: JJ assigned to coke Issue Spin off Perl6::Documentable https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
16:33 Geth ¦ doc: JJ assigned to fluca1978 Issue Spin off Perl6::Documentable https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
16:33 Geth ¦ doc: JJ assigned to lizmat Issue Spin off Perl6::Documentable https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
16:33 Geth ¦ doc: JJ assigned to AlexDaniel Issue Spin off Perl6::Documentable https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
16:33 Geth ¦ doc: JJ assigned to zoffixznet Issue Spin off Perl6::Documentable https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
16:33 Geth ¦ doc: JJ assigned to dogbert17 Issue Spin off Perl6::Documentable https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
16:35 Geth ¦ doc: JJ assigned to W4anD0eR96 Issue Spin off Perl6::Documentable https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
16:35 Geth ¦ doc: JJ assigned to cfa Issue Spin off Perl6::Documentable https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
16:36 Geth ¦ doc: JJ assigned to Tyil Issue Spin off Perl6::Documentable https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
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16:39 * jmerelo travels in a train through Portugal
16:39 yoleaux 13:32Z <[Coke]> jmerelo: you can test your local doc changes with the full test suite with this: https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#running-tests
16:39 Geth ¦ marketing: 656c0adbbf | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 7 files
16:39 Geth ¦ marketing: Use Transparent Wing Camelia for Regex Poster
16:39 Geth ¦ marketing: review: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/commit/656c0adbbf
16:40 jmerelo [Coke]: OK
16:42 Geth ¦ doc: zoffixznet self-unassigned Spin off Perl6::Documentable https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
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16:59 Geth ¦ marketing: 40958e85c9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
16:59 Geth ¦ marketing: Add Soft-Black ver of Transparent Wings Camelia
16:59 Geth ¦ marketing: review: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/commit/40958e85c9
17:01 Geth ¦ marketing: 626cf826f6 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 8 files
17:01 Geth ¦ marketing: More tweaks to "Regex Poster"
17:01 Geth ¦ marketing:
17:01 Geth ¦ marketing: - Use soft-black version of Camelia
17:01 Geth ¦ marketing: - Use more realer regex for swear word
17:01 Geth ¦ marketing: - Fix kerning
17:01 Geth ¦ marketing: - Reduce colors
17:01 Geth ¦ marketing: review: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/commit/626cf826f6
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17:20 Geth ¦ doc: cfa self-unassigned Spin off Perl6::Documentable https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
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17:31 Geth ¦ doc: 00982d91fc | 陈梓立++ | README.zh.md
17:31 Geth ¦ doc: Update README.zh.md
17:31 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/00982d91fc
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17:53 Geth ¦ doc: f4321a57e0 | 陈梓立++ | README.zh.md
17:53 Geth ¦ doc: Update README.zh.md
17:53 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f4321a57e0
17:55 Geth ¦ doc: 60292afab9 | 陈梓立++ | README.zh.md
17:55 Geth ¦ doc: Update README.zh.md
17:55 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/60292afab9
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18:01 Geth ¦ doc: e6f0dfd8be | 陈梓立++ | 2 files
18:01 Geth ¦ doc: Merge license stuff in README
18:01 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/e6f0dfd8be
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18:09 Geth ¦ doc: 1759e05da5 | 陈梓立++ | README.zh.md
18:09 Geth ¦ doc: Update README.zh.md
18:09 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1759e05da5
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18:18 [Coke] using a slightly out of date rakudo; I have a block that I am trying to de-||ize; it's this block: https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/coke/build/htmlify.p6#L228-L243
18:19 [Coke] if I remove the array and the start, and the await, I get errors about mismatched types. if I remove the array and set the start to a scalar, and then "await $scalar", same error. if I await Promise.allof: $scalar --- that works.
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18:24 Geth ¦ doc: W4anD0eR96 self-unassigned Spin off Perl6::Documentable https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
18:25 Geth ¦ doc: AlexDaniel self-unassigned Spin off Perl6::Documentable https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
18:26 jnthn [Coke]: Yes, because Promise.allof doesn't convey errors, it's just used for sequencing
18:29 [Coke] in that case, i suspect that parts of the doc build have been failing for some time and it's been hidden behind that.
18:29 [Coke] Danke.
18:29 mcmillhj joined #perl6
18:30 jnthn .oO( Bitte-sweet... )
18:34 [Coke] oh, wow. few dozen pages are not getting processed. wonder if this is responsible for any open tickets.
18:34 jnthn Note that if one wants to wait for a bunch of results, then `await` in Perl 6 is slurpy so you can `await $p1, $p2, @p-these`, etc.
18:38 perlawhirl bisectable6: say dir.sort(&lc)
18:38 bisectable6 perlawhirl, Bisecting by exit code (old=2015.12 new=ceeb3a0). Old exit code: 0
18:38 bisectable6 perlawhirl, bisect log: https://gist.github.com/f1dd78f91bf09798c9b9f5eb4cce8b3b
18:38 bisectable6 perlawhirl, (2018-02-21) https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cdb45fa5a65f06b543db7939fc51af7b598e0bfb
18:38 [Coke] this may explain this comment: https://github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/htmlify.p6#L162-L164
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18:43 AlexDaniel perlawhirl: can you please leave a comment here? https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1566#issuecomment-373856074
18:45 Geth ¦ doc/coke/build: 16 commits pushed by (Will "Coke" Coleda)++
18:45 Geth ¦ doc/coke/build: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/c8c49b974606...57d51097e54b
18:46 mcmillhj joined #perl6
18:46 perlawhirl AlexDaniel: Will do... was just looking to see if there was issue mentioning this already
18:47 perlawhirl FWIW, the current workaround for this case is simple: dir.sort(*.lc) works fine
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19:06 moritz .fc is recommended for sorting/comparison
19:08 perlawhirl thanks, moritz
19:10 Bowlslaw is there any way to run perl 6 on my rpi3?
19:10 Bowlslaw I've tried many times but it lacks the RAM
19:13 AlexDaniel Bowlslaw: are you trying to compile it yourself?
19:13 AlexDaniel just take a deb and install it
19:13 AlexDaniel huggable: debs
19:13 huggable AlexDaniel, CentOS, Debian, Fedora and Ubuntu Rakudo packages: https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases
19:14 AlexDaniel oh wait… no arm packages here
19:14 Bowlslaw yes i'm trying to compile it
19:14 Bowlslaw :(
19:14 moritz might need a swap file
19:14 moritz and compilation will be slooow with swap
19:15 AlexDaniel Bowlslaw: well, is that on debian stretch?
19:15 AlexDaniel apt install rakudo should give 2016.12, isn't that good enough
19:15 AlexDaniel ?
19:15 AlexDaniel you can add unstable repo and install 2018.03
19:15 AlexDaniel that's what I've been doing for rpi
19:16 Bowlslaw AlexDaniel well isn't 2 years a big difference for perl 6 ?
19:16 Bowlslaw how did you add that repo?
19:19 AlexDaniel well the easiest way is to just edit /etc/apt/sources.list and add some extra lines with “sid” there
19:19 AlexDaniel same ones that you have with “stretch”
19:20 AlexDaniel be aware that mixing unstable & stable packages is potentially bad, but it should work just fine if you're only going to install rakudo like this
19:22 AlexDaniel El_Che: by the way, what about arm packages?
19:22 Bowlslaw AlexDaniel: thanks
19:23 AlexDaniel Bowlslaw: did that work? After adding a repo it should be as simple as apt update && apt install rakudo
19:23 Bowlslaw I don't have access right now, I have to try later
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19:40 Zoffix FWIW, looking at the list of blockers make me think we should skip 2018.04 release and make any new changes for the next 4 weeks in a "post-release-2018.05" branch. With master left for blocker resolution and testing.
19:41 AlexDaniel this is a tough month for sure
19:41 Zoffix The multies blocker alone is quite a bit of work to fix. And the rare hang + memory leak + random stresstest floppers. As much as trust jnthn's superpowers, kinda hard to see all those being fully resolved in 3-10 days.
19:41 AlexDaniel alright, let's look…
19:41 AlexDaniel releasable6: status
19:41 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Next release in ≈3 days and ≈23 hours. 8 blockers. 224 out of 239 commits logged
19:41 releasable6 AlexDaniel, Details: https://gist.github.com/c9ab4986ca2723f1787cab5ef8f7265b
19:42 AlexDaniel big endian issue seems to be resolved, just awaiting confirmation
19:42 Zoffix The R#1736 can be ignored. Those are easy and just PRing fixes to modules.
19:42 synopsebot R#1736 [open]: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1736 [LHF][⚠ blocker ⚠] Toaster results show several modules' tests rely on buggy Num stringification
19:42 Zoffix R#1566 is also an easy workaround, if any new routines are even affected
19:42 synopsebot R#1566 [open]: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1566 [regression][⚠ blocker ⚠] multi built-ins are not assignable to Callable
19:43 AlexDaniel new stress test floppers are actually not very new, if I got everything right
19:43 AlexDaniel or at least some of them
19:44 AlexDaniel so optimistically we are down to 4
19:44 Zoffix So it's a rare hang + random stresstest floppers + SEGV + memory leak + reworking all the routines that care about .count to examine multies
19:44 Zoffix stresstest floppers *are* new. I almost always run stresstests instead of spectest and these just recently started popping up.
19:45 AlexDaniel ok
19:45 AlexDaniel I don't know what to do with the memory leak, it's not very significant
19:45 Zoffix And the "rare hang + random stresstest floppers + SEGV + memory leak" ones have a bus factor issue
19:45 AlexDaniel but it is noticeable in whateverable
19:45 AlexDaniel right
19:45 Zoffix And we gonna base Star off this release, so any LTAness will linger around for 3months
19:46 xq why is it a problem to test numbers with is() ?
19:46 Zoffix xq: because that routine stringifies everything except type objects.
19:47 Zoffix xq: it's a really bad testing routine (for historical reasons, really)
19:47 xq why is it a problem to stringify numbers?
19:47 timotimo it can be problematic if you were relying on it rounding for you
19:47 timotimo m: say 10 - 1e-15
19:47 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «9.999999999999998␤»
19:47 timotimo m: say 10 - 1e-14
19:47 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «9.99999999999999␤»
19:47 timotimo m: say 10 - 1e-16
19:47 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «10␤»
19:47 Zoffix m: use Test; is .1e+.2e0, .3e0
19:48 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Confused␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3use Test; is .1e7⏏5+.2e0, .3e0␤»
19:48 timotimo wow, i accidentally hit exactly the right spot
19:48 Zoffix m: use Test; is .1e0+.2e0, .3e0
19:48 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «not ok 1 - ␤# Failed test at <tmp> line 1␤# expected: '0.3'␤#      got: '0.30000000000000004'␤»
19:48 timotimo Zoffix: omg, the regex poster %)
19:48 xq what about rats and ints ?
19:48 xq I understand that it's bad for floating point and rounding
19:49 timotimo you might also want to assert that the type is correct
19:49 Zoffix xq: well, the problem most of them stringify to the same thing: Int 1, Num 1e0, Rat 1.0; they'll all stringify the same. But you could have a routine that takes only one of them
19:49 Zoffix xq: or in other words, what exactly are you testing?
19:50 AlexDaniel Zoffix: IMO let's not cancel 2018.04 release just yet, we can give it a day or two from now to see which direction it's going… if even more blockers pop up then yeah, but sometimes magic happens. Also we can just delay it by a week or more if needed.
19:50 * Zoffix relocates
19:50 Zoffix AlexDaniel: sounds good
19:50 xq the whole thing just caught my eye as confusing; in perl5 I test integer scalars vs each other with is() without thinking twice if it was '123' or 123
19:51 xq and I was wondering if it's different/problematic in perl6
19:54 xq very simple real example - I retrieve a row from database by a search on unique key, and test if the id column (bigint) equals to a known value
19:54 japhb xq: perl5 has a fuzzier line between strings and numbers than Perl 6 does.  For example, the special case of the string "0" being false because it can be numerified to 0 no longer exists.  Also, Perl 6 numbers don't cache their own string representation unless they are explictly allomorphs.
19:55 Zoffix m: use Test; is 1000000000000, 1e12
19:55 xq would is() still work in perl6 for my example?
19:55 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «ok 1 - ␤»
19:55 Zoffix m: use Test; is 1000000000000000, 1e15
19:55 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «not ok 1 - ␤# Failed test at <tmp> line 1␤# expected: '1e+15'␤#      got: '1000000000000000'␤»
19:56 Zoffix m: use Test; cmp-ok 1000000000000000, '==', 1e15
19:56 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «ok 1 - ␤»
19:56 Zoffix xq: ^
19:56 Zoffix xq: Perl 5 doesn't have types so it matters less
19:56 xq I would never use scientific notation :P
19:57 xq powers of 10 if anything
19:57 japhb xq: It always pains me when we phrase it like that.  It *does* have types.  Just not anything like Perl 6 does.
19:57 xq m: use Test; is 1000000000000000, 10**15;
19:57 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «ok 1 - ␤»
19:58 xq m: use Test; is 1000000000000000, '1000000000000000';
19:58 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «ok 1 - ␤»
19:58 xq good enough for me
19:58 japhb m: (10**15).WHAT.say
19:58 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «(Int)␤»
19:59 japhb That's because we detect Int exponentiated to Int, and make sure it stays Int.
20:01 Zoffix m: use Test; is (((((42,),),),),), 42
20:01 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «ok 1 - ␤»
20:02 Zoffix xq: how abou this? ^ You made a bug that caused your routine to return a quintuple-nested list and your test didn't even catch it
20:03 xq lol
20:03 Zoffix m: sub (Int) {}(1.0)
20:03 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «Type check failed in binding to parameter '<anon>'; expected Int but got Rat (1.0)␤  in sub  at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
20:03 xq are lists not flat in perl6 ?
20:04 Zoffix xq: orhow about this ^ your routine was meant to return an Int but it regressed to return a Rat, breaking user's code and your test didn't catch it
20:04 Zoffix no, there's no auyo-flattening
20:04 xq wow
20:04 xq that's a pretty major difference
20:04 Zoffix is-deeply is the right test routine most of the time
20:05 Zoffix xq: it's a completely different language
20:05 xq yeah...
20:05 Zoffix m: '0' and print 'Perl 6' or print 'Perl 5'
20:05 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «Perl 6»
20:06 Zoffix perlbot: eval: '0' and print 'Perl 6' or print 'Perl 5'
20:06 perlbot Zoffix: Perl 6
20:06 Zoffix eval it with p5  stupid bot
20:06 xq uhh
20:06 timotimo perlbot: eval: print $[
20:06 perlbot timotimo: [31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m Error while compiling /tmp/kLpoM_EQ8p Unable to parse expression in array composer; couldn't find final ']' (corresponding starter was at line 1) at /tmp/kLpoM_EQ8p:1 ------> [32mprint $[[33m�[31m<EOL>[0m [Exited 1]
20:06 xq those both were perl6 right
20:06 timotimo right, that's 6
20:09 Geth ¦ doc: 2fd7d90d8a | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6
20:09 Geth ¦ doc: Tries to fix HTMLify errors
20:09 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2fd7d90d8a
20:09 Geth ¦ doc: 05ca7b3e28 | (JJ Merelo)++ | 17 files
20:09 Geth ¦ doc: Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/doc
20:09 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/operators
20:09 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/05ca7b3e28
20:10 xq I have installed rakudo star by building from a source tarball. Is there a way to somehow install modules into this perl6 ?
20:10 xq I did not do make install
20:10 xq just using rlwrap ./perl6 inside ./rakudo/
20:11 timotimo yes, you can "git clone" or unzip/untar module sources and add their directories with -I
20:11 xq aha, I see
20:12 timotimo some modules do require a build step before their installation, and i'm not sure if that's easily doable without doing an actual install
20:12 xq I just realized that I can actually do a make install
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20:12 xq so doing that, it's installing in ./install
20:13 timotimo yup, that's the default --prefix value
20:13 xq very convenient
20:13 Zoffix xq: the one way I know is using step 12 from this guide (without last line) to setup path and install zef and then you can just use zef to install modules: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/master/docs/release_guide.pod
20:13 timotimo i have my perl6 in ~/perl6/install - and a second no-experiments perl6 in ~/build/stableperl6/install (for when i put massive debugspam or potentially crashy stuff in my regular perl6 and need to run some perl6 commands with a working perl6)
20:14 xq is there something like perlbrew ?
20:14 timotimo for what purpose do you want it?
20:14 timotimo we have rakudobrew, but its purpose is to let you switch between many rakudo versions with a single command, but it makes everything else more complicated
20:14 comborico1611 I cannot find perl6-mode on Emacs through Melpa archive.
20:15 Zoffix comborico1611: check in perl/perl6-mode on github
20:15 Zoffix xq: there's rakuduo and lonestar
20:15 xq I think the most value of perlbrew for me is that it automatically setups local::lib
20:15 timotimo you mean rakudup?
20:15 Zoffix yeah
20:16 comborico1611 I see why.  I'm on Emacs25.
20:16 comborico1611 Zoffix: Thanks though!
20:16 Zoffix for that use rakudup ir lonestar
20:16 Zoffix huggable: sauce
20:16 huggable Zoffix, Install latest version of Rakudo from source: https://github.com/zoffixznet/r#table-of-contents
20:16 Zoffix xq: ^ I just use that bash alias
20:17 Zoffix xq: rakudup: https://rakudup.github.io/
20:17 Zoffix xq: lonestar https://github.com/Tyil/lonestar
20:18 xq thanks Zoffix
20:18 xq I understand that updating rakudo or installing another one is not a problem
20:19 lizmat joined #perl6
20:19 xq the module management however still is not exactly clear. As I understand, 'zef' is the tool to install modules (like cpanm?) but does it install modules 'globally' or per-rakudo-installation ?
20:20 xq also, does perl6 support installing modules per-project (carton-style) ?
20:21 Zoffix left #perl6
20:21 timotimo rakudo can load modules from anywhere that you pass a -I for, i believe zef has an install "into" functionality
20:21 Geth ¦ doc: 5dc5869e95 | (JJ Merelo)++ | Makefile
20:21 Geth ¦ doc: Eliminates debug code
20:21 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/5dc5869e95
20:21 timotimo i have not tried any of this yet, and i don't think there's a nice tool for this workflow yet
20:21 timotimo but having a tool like that would sure be nice :)
20:21 xq I see
20:25 xq well, this is weird
20:26 xq m: use Test; is(1, 1);
20:26 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «ok 1 - ␤»
20:26 xq m: use Test; is (1, 1);
20:26 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «Cannot resolve caller is(List); none of these signatures match:␤    (Mu $got, Mu:U $expected, $desc = "")␤    (Mu $got, Mu:D $expected, $desc = "")␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
20:26 xq ' ' between is and ( matters? Perl6 has significant whitespace?
20:29 AlexDaniel yes, it does matter in that case. with “is (1, 1)” you're passing a list as an argument
20:29 xq ... seriously?
20:29 AlexDaniel what's bad about that?
20:30 timotimo if you don't like it, you can use Slang::Tuxic
20:30 xq this is going to take some time getting used to
20:30 xq is all I can say
20:31 timotimo you can leave out the parens, too :)
20:31 jmerelo 6lang.org is returning a 503: https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/jobs/367836916
20:31 lizmat xq: use Slang::Tuxic
20:31 AlexDaniel jmerelo: I know, I know
20:31 jnthn Note that this design choice means that `say ($a + $b) * $c` does what it looks like :)
20:31 lizmat xq: it will allow you to "is (1,1)"
20:32 xq no it's fine
20:32 pharv joined #perl6
20:32 xq it's a new language after all
20:33 xq also being able to omit () is probably going to make it irrelevant anyway
20:33 xq this is a pretty big thing
20:34 xq does perl6 have something like deparse?
20:35 timotimo hm, deparse gives you back source code, right?
20:35 xq yes
20:35 timotimo we don't have that yet
20:35 xq ok
20:35 timotimo what we do have is --target=ast (and =optimize)
20:36 lizmat timotimo: that's not what deparse is
20:36 timotimo you can gleam what the code you wrote does by using that, though
20:36 lizmat *that* is true  :-)
20:36 * lizmat is tired and not quite as coherent as she thought she would be
20:36 lizmat night!
20:38 timotimo night liz!
20:38 timotimo https://github.com/zoffixznet/q - this is useful if you're working with --target=ast or optimize
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20:39 AlexDaniel jmerelo: fixed
20:39 xq the --target thing looks slightly like too much for now
20:40 [Coke] (p6doc) processing issues with head C<...> and X<C<...>> that were hidden by the previous code.
20:40 xq I'll stick to figure out the basics - make a function, make a module, make a CLI script using this module, make a test, make a webapp
20:43 timotimo sure :)
20:43 timotimo can always ask in here
20:44 jmerelo [Coke]++
20:46 Geth ¦ doc: coke self-assigned Parallel processing is broken, even with --parallel=1 https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1938
20:47 Kaiepi joined #perl6
20:48 [Coke] I'm working on that in the coke/build branch, if I can extract my fixes back to master, will do so.
20:51 comborico1611 I don't care for the error message you get when you call the same function you are defining:
20:51 comborico1611 Calling seconds() will never work with declared signature ($raw)
20:51 comborico1611 at seconds.p6:1
20:53 comborico1611 But I'm not sure what is possible.
20:53 [Coke] if 'seconds' takes an arg and you try to call it without one, it will fail.
20:54 [Coke] m: sub seconds($raw) { 'hi' } ; seconds();
20:54 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling seconds() will never work with declared signature ($raw)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub seconds($raw) { 'hi' } ; 7⏏5seconds();␤»
20:54 [Coke] doesn't matter if the call is coming from inside the sub you're defining or not
20:54 comborico1611 I see.  Thank you!
20:54 [Coke] m: sub seconds($raw) { 'hi' } ; seconds(3);
20:54 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: ( no output )
20:54 [Coke] you can define an optional arg with ?
20:54 [Coke] m: sub seconds($raw?) { 'hi' } ; seconds();
20:54 camelia rakudo-moar ceeb3a00d: ( no output )
20:55 comborico1611 I didn't know that!  I just got confused.  I've been playing around with Lisp lately.
20:55 comborico1611 What is the name of that ? operator?
20:56 comborico1611 I would liek to read more at docs.
20:56 _28_ria joined #perl6
20:56 geekosaur it's not an operator, it's part of a signature. indicates an optional parameter
20:57 geekosaur so lokk at docs for signatures
20:57 geekosaur *look
20:57 comborico1611 I see.  Thank you!
20:57 comborico1611 Found it: Constraining Optional Arguments
20:58 [Coke] \o/
20:59 comborico1611 *high-five
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21:05 pmurias_ http://www.graalvm.org/ - graalvm 1.0 has been released
21:08 pmurias joined #perl6
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21:11 * [Coke] wonders how much we could speed up repeated doc builds if we cached the highlighting work.
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21:17 jmerelo [Coke]: I don't think that takes the most time...
21:18 [Coke] it's a large part of the "writing type document" time, IIRC.
21:18 jmerelo [Coke]: Hum. Maybe a couple of minutes
21:19 jmerelo pmurias: does it do Perl 6?
21:20 jmerelo [Coke]: Travis caches module directories... https://docs.travis-ci.com/user/caching/
21:21 jmerelo [Coke]: and I haven't managed to make Shippable cache work properly.
21:22 jmerelo [Coke]: we could create a data container with Docker... and cache it there.
21:22 comborico1611 geekosaur: Actually, I didn't find ? in the signature article of Docs.
21:25 mcmillhj joined #perl6
21:25 Geth ¦ doc: d1c19d5a43 | (JJ Merelo)++ | 2 files
21:25 Geth ¦ doc: Adds single arg rule closes #600
21:25 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/d1c19d5a43
21:25 * Zoffix reads reddit comments and notices a broken telephone effect with Zoffix's profession.
21:26 Zoffix I don't work in branding or advertising :) I work as multi-media designer in a marketing department of a company that sells stuff :)
21:27 jmerelo I'm going to call it a day
21:28 * jmerelo says Bôa Noite da Coimbra
21:28 Zoffix \o
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21:41 pilne i don't work in anything programmming related, i'm a dabbler, that can't keep away from perl6 for long :D
21:41 pilne in the mmorpg analogy i'm the "cheerful but unhelpful npc"
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21:44 Zoffix :)
21:47 simcop2387 What does it take to port rakudo/nqp/etc to a new VM? Just curious after reading about GraalVM
21:49 Zoffix I think you'd largely just port the nqp ops
21:49 Zoffix Like these three dirs are compilers for specific VMs: https://github.com/perl6/nqp/tree/master/src/vm
21:49 Zoffix Also, some here: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/master/src/vm
21:50 tadzik https://blogs.oracle.com/developers/announcing-graalvm look, ma, Parrot in a new hat!
21:50 simcop2387 basically, :)
21:51 tadzik "Our vision was to create a single VM that would provide high performance for all programming languages, therefore facilitating communication between programs" :D
21:51 Zoffix comborico1611: it's here: https://docs.perl6.org/type/Signature#Optional_and_Mandatory_Parameters
21:51 simcop2387 it looks like they've actually got it working, though I don't know how well for a lot of cases
21:51 tadzik if I had a dollar every time someone said that I could probably get a beer already
21:51 simcop2387 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16859559 # HN discussion about Graal
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22:22 comborico1611 Zoffix: Thanks!
22:30 mcmillhj joined #perl6
22:42 Geth ¦ museum-items: 776395ea47 | raiph++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 2000/State Of The Onion 2000 introduces Perl 6.md
22:42 Geth ¦ museum-items: Create State Of The Onion 2000 introduces Perl 6.md
22:42 Geth ¦ museum-items: review: https://github.com/perl6/museum-items/commit/776395ea47
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22:51 Herby_ o/
22:58 Herby_ \o
22:59 timotimo ö
22:59 Herby_ timotimo: how goes it?
23:00 timotimo eh, rakudo release is looking a little rough
23:03 timotimo how's you?
23:04 Herby_ chugging along on my parsing project
23:04 mcmillhj joined #perl6
23:04 timotimo parsing projects is a good pastime
23:05 Herby_ yeah. it's helping me get a somewhat better grasp on the basics of grammars
23:07 Herby_ timotimo: do you have a blog or some sort for the work you're doing with rakudo?
23:07 Herby_ or am I imagining that
23:07 timotimo i do!
23:07 timotimo it's https://wakelift.de/
23:07 timotimo it's only got two posts so far, but i should really write another very soon
23:09 Herby_ i look forward to a new one
23:10 timotimo glad to hear it :)
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23:38 Geth ¦ doc: 26fd96dcbb | (Christopher Bottoms)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/list.pod6
23:38 Geth ¦ doc: Code format for (minor edit)
23:38 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/26fd96dcbb
23:38 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/list
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