Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2012-11-05

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Time Nick Message
00:01 NoOS ok thanks
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02:58 twinshadow testing states is a bit harder than modules :P
03:01 twinshadow also, why is "name" the only variable passed-to at the beginning of a state-function?
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10:53 Garethgr morning, how do i get salt to restart a service once the "watched" file has been updated, its seems to only try start the process not restart it.
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11:40 Garethgr morning, how do i get salt to restart a service once the "watched" file has been updated, its seems to only try start the process not restart it ?
11:45 bastichelaar1 Garethgr: OS?
11:46 Garethgr bastichelaar1: linux
11:47 bastichelaar1 Garethgr: lol :) distribution I mean
11:47 Garethgr bastichelaar1: debian, sorry :)
11:47 bastichelaar1 can you post your sls?
11:47 Garethgr bastichelaar1: I am using service.running and get the following message in the logs - "Network server bind failure (98: Address already in use)"
11:47 Garethgr 1 sec
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11:48 Garethgr http://pastebin.com/NuS2YPDB
11:51 bastichelaar1 and the script is named /etc/init.d/nagios-nrpe-server ?
11:51 bastichelaar1 can you check what the name of the process is when its running?
11:52 Garethgr yes its named that, and its called "/usr/sbin/nrpe -c /etc/nagios/nrpe.cfg -d"
11:53 bastichelaar1 try this
11:53 bastichelaar1 http://pastebin.com/X4DmSdBH
11:56 Garethgr once again you rock !!
11:56 Garethgr why did it work now ?
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11:56 bastichelaar1 http://docs.saltstack.org/en/latest/ref/states/all/salt.states.service.html#salt.states.service.running
11:56 bastichelaar1 sig
11:56 bastichelaar1 The string to search for when looking for the service process with ps
11:57 Garethgr ah ok
11:57 Garethgr i will read up more on that, thanks again :)
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12:27 Garethgr bastichelaar1: if i wanted to do a custom restart, like a graceful-stop and start for apache2, would I use the cmd: module ?
12:27 Garethgr sorry to bug you again
12:28 bastichelaar1 thats what I would do, but maybe there is a better way
12:28 bastichelaar1 not sure
12:28 Garethgr ok cool thanks
12:28 bastichelaar1 http://docs.saltstack.org/en/latest/ref/states/all/salt.states.service.html#salt.states.service.mod_watch
12:28 bastichelaar1 there is a pointer to a reload option
12:28 bastichelaar1 not sure what it does though
12:28 Garethgr ah ok
12:29 Garethgr yea i have just about read through all the doc's and others init.sls files, and not really found what I am looking for, a cookbook would be really nice ;)
12:30 bastichelaar1 cookbook, sounds cheffish ;)
12:32 Garethgr well you know what I mean, like those Oreily Recipies ... where they have done a few senarios and what you would use
12:32 Garethgr :P
12:32 bastichelaar1 jep
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12:43 Furao in a .sls file, is there a way to execute a command only if the state had been changed?
12:47 Furao ah it's watch
12:47 Furao sorry
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13:50 jollyroger hello. How can I ask salt to run 'apt-get update' after changing /etc/apt/sources.list file or any file under /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ directory?
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13:53 Furao well even if the state don't change, it still execute
13:53 bhosmer jollyroger: you can use a shell command or the watch requisite.
13:54 bhosmer https://salt.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ref/states/ordering.html?highlight=watch
13:54 bhosmer jollyroger: What is it you are trying to do?
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13:58 Furao you mean me?
13:59 Furao bhosmer?
13:59 bhosmer No, jollyroger he asked a question similar to yours.
13:59 jollyroger bhosmer: thanks, you see, when you add a new repository, you need to do several steps. You can think about them as required to run once after the list of repositories has changed. The first one is to add GPG-key which is used to sign newly-added repository. It is possible to depend the first action on another check (that will check wether imported key is available un trusted db). But you need to run apt-get update to get the list of new p
13:59 Furao wow
14:00 Furao jollyroger is exactly trying to do what I do :)
14:00 bhosmer Here is how I did it: https://github.com/saltstack/salt-states/blob/master/small/lamp-drupal/init.sls
14:00 Furao apt-key add stuff
14:00 bhosmer look at the mariadb-server section.
14:01 Furao thanks
14:02 bhosmer I assume you both are adding an index and then installing from that.
14:03 bhosmer You could do it with a shell script too, but generally if you add a repo, you are then going to install a pakcage from that repo.
14:03 bhosmer This saves the step over using a shell script and keeps it all in yaml instead.
14:06 jollyroger bhosmer: yes, I see how do you add key. It's the same as I described. But I don't understand how aptitude will get the knowledge about the packages in the new repository? I don't see any 'apt-get update' command or similar.
14:08 jollyroger or refresh argument to pkg.installed will always require to run 'apt-get update' to know if the package is up to date?
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14:19 Furao jollyroger: from what I see, when I run ps, apt-get update really run
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15:00 ninkotech how well is gentoo supported?
15:00 ninkotech i tried it on one gentoo machine, but it failed to install packages
15:01 MTecknology gentoo is supported pretty poorly
15:01 MTecknology I can't see why salt wouldn't work on it, though.
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15:54 jollyroger does anyone have of some detailed explanation or usage example for cmd.wait?  https://salt.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ref/states/all/salt.states.cmd.html?highlight=cmd%20wait#salt.states.cmd.wait
15:55 herlo jollyroger: what do you want to know?
15:55 herlo I  use it in place of cmd.run when you use a watch or a watch_in
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16:08 jollyroger herlo: emm, so if some resource depends on this cmd using watch statement, right? and if noone watches this cmd, then the command will not be run?
16:10 herlo jollyroger: the other way around
16:10 herlo cmd.wait watches another service or another service uses watch_in to this cmd.
16:10 herlo service is just a good example, many states have the watch functionality
16:17 jollyroger herlo: thanks!
16:17 herlo jollyroger: good luck
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16:34 Garethgr hiya, would I be able to use the apache.signal in an SLS file under watch ?
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16:36 Garethgr because I would rather do a graceful restart than a complete restart
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20:02 romeotheriault out of interest, what are peoples thoughts on the advantages of having to explicitly define state ordering (e.g. require statements, etc..) over having the order being implicitly defined by the order of the statements?
20:03 kuffs implicit definition seems difficult to implement
20:04 kuffs given that the python renderer returns a dict
20:04 kuffs what happens when you have an included and extended SLS as well?
20:05 edroid I have been asked if Salt has a "verify mode" such as that found In the table http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open_source_configuration_management_software#Basic_properties  Is this table out-of-date or does Salt have an equivalent?
20:05 kuffs explicit ordering gives you the option to be a little more free form with the structure so as to make templating easier
20:05 kuffs edroid: state.highstate test=True?
20:05 romeotheriault yeah, I'm not sure. I guess I'm interested in why salt and some others like puppet require you to define order while others like chef and ansible don't
20:06 kuffs I don't know enough about chef or ansible
20:06 kuffs but I think that explicit ordering is part of what makes the requisites so powerful
20:07 edroid thanks <kuffs>... I guess the table is out-of-date
20:07 romeotheriault thanks kuffs
20:08 romeotheriault I'll read about requisites and try to grok that a bit
20:09 Nic @romeotheriault: Puppet's lack of implicit ordering is a design decision; behind the scenes it creates a giant directed graph.  With Salt, I'm pretty sure the lack of implicit ordering is a side-effect of the implementation of states
20:09 kuffs well, it also does a partial directed graph
20:10 Nic I know that Chef's implicit ordering was a direct response to Puppet.  They didn't like the digraph method, and the confusion it caused
20:11 romeotheriault @Nic, yes I tend to find the implicit ordering clearer myself.
20:12 Nic I like to think of it as the difference between shell scripts and Makefiles
20:13 Nic But I still have yet to see config managers paralellize things like make does.
20:14 romeotheriault hmm, interesting.
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20:32 kuffs eh, it's just the difference between declarative and imperative languages
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20:50 colinbits clear
20:50 colinbits lol, sorry
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20:56 twinshadow are there any pitfalls with updating grains from states/modules?
20:56 pau hi all. is there a list somewhere of companies that are using salt in production?
20:57 kuffs twinshadow: I believe that there's a _grains folder that gets auto-synced to minions iirc
20:58 kuffs twinshadow: http://docs.saltstack.org/en/latest/topics/targeting/grains.html#writing-grains
20:58 twinshadow yup. The problem that I'm making is that grain information is set via infomation from the network, and I'd like to do bad things with grains in that case
20:59 twinshadow like update it periodically
20:59 kuffs consider pillar instead
20:59 twinshadow good point
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21:10 NoOS Hello, what would be the best place to configure the server roles? Is there a function to edit the configuration of the file /etc/salt/minion from the master?
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21:15 UtahDave NoOS: Generally, you'll configure your server roles through a state. The top.sls directs which states get applied to which minions
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21:20 NoOS ok, is a state the same as an environment?
21:21 kuffs no, a state is an individual resource that is managed on a system
21:21 kuffs http://docs.saltstack.org/en/latest/topics/tutorials/starting_states.html
21:23 romeotheriault interesting article by a (the?) zeromq developer about how he should have written zeromq in c (vs. c++):
21:23 romeotheriault http://www.250bpm.com/blog:4
21:24 romeotheriault looks like he's already started playing with forking it to c
21:25 romeotheriault here's the fork: http://www.crossroads.io/
21:36 retrospek romeotheriault: lol. nice find. excellent summary of my beef with the exception unbounding problem
21:37 romeotheriault @retrospek: thanks
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21:38 retrospek the comments have other good link leads too
21:46 NoOS Is there a function to edit the configuration of the file /etc/salt/minion from the master?
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21:46 mgeary thatch45_: ping
21:51 kuffs NoOS: presumably you would use either the file module or state
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21:52 NoOS ok, thanks
21:52 kuffs http://docs.saltstack.org/en/latest/ref/modules/all/salt.modules.file.html#module-salt.modules.file or http://docs.saltstack.org/en/latest/ref/states/all/salt.states.file.html#module-salt.states.file
21:52 jefferai I have an issue where when my machine boots, it never is visible from the salt master via e.g. test.ping
21:52 jefferai even though the daemon is running and reports no errors
21:52 jefferai if I restart salt-minion, the master then sees it just fine
21:53 kuffs maybe you have a service dependency issue? like perhaps the minion is attempting to connect to the master before networking is all the way up?
21:53 jefferai hm
21:53 jefferai could be, I suppose
21:54 jefferai not sure how to delay it, but I guess if that's the explanation, I'll just put a restart of the minion into rc.local
21:54 kuffs it depends on platform
21:54 kuffs but that may also not be it
21:55 SEJeff_work jefferai, Take a look at: http://docs.saltstack.org/en/latest/topics/troubleshooting/index.html
21:57 jefferai SEJeff_work: yeah, didn't see anything there, but probably the network isn't fully up yet
21:57 jefferai that seems quite likely
21:57 mrud oh SEJeff_work is back
21:57 kuffs I know that name resolution in the minion service can get a little weird
21:58 kuffs it's got its own error message, though. I don't know what the backoff and retry timers look like on the minion
21:59 SEJeff_work SEJeff is 1/2 back :)
21:59 SEJeff_work Can't work on salt as much during the day
22:00 SEJeff_work But I'm back to hacking on the project since picking up my life and moving 1/2 way across the US :)
22:00 SEJeff_work mrud, hi :)
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22:07 mrud SEJeff_work: long time no see
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22:08 mrud SEJeff_work: i think i didn't contribute anything to salt since i moved here
22:08 kuffs sooo, how do people feel about a no-op state that acts as a requisite container?
22:08 Nic SEJeff_work: I still owe you a drink.
22:09 kuffs I got some dependencies I want to group together and alias
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22:10 SEJeff_work Nic, or two :P
22:10 SEJeff_work I've been going through the 45k + LOC added since I moved 5-6 months ago and have been slowly cleaning up things. Should be a pretty solid release coming up.
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22:13 dcolish SEJeff_work: any particular patches of interest?
22:14 SEJeff_work Not really, just trying to normalize things a lot
22:14 SEJeff_work dcolish, You in particular did a fantastic job of moving open statements over to using the with operator
22:14 SEJeff_work A lot of your hard work has not been applied going forward
22:15 SEJeff_work tons of places with operators are not used in the current git. I've went through ~20 or so of the modules and have cleaned up the obvious stuff
22:15 SEJeff_work dcolish, See: https://github.com/saltstack/salt/pull/2427 and https://github.com/saltstack/salt/pull/2437
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22:17 dcolish yeah iirc all the user contrib stuff that got added to core was not always the cleanest
22:17 SEJeff_work Right, it needs a lot of love
22:17 SEJeff_work Seemed like a good way for me to ease my way back into contributing
22:17 dcolish it really should be the responsiblity of the original authors/
22:18 dcolish its one of the reasons I kind of trailed off
22:18 SEJeff_work dcolish, Not everyone is as experienced in python as you are
22:18 SEJeff_work You're more experienced than me, but I know enough to fix things like: https://github.com/SEJeff/salt/commit/4c26f60049779657981088c52eb21f0f41604a0f
22:18 dcolish well i am happy to help with reviews and get authors up to speed
22:19 SEJeff_work dcolish, Well perhaps you can contribute to core more :)
22:19 dcolish my worry is that they're mostly not around
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22:19 SEJeff_work As you know, there is plenty to do
22:19 SEJeff_work And we are always happy to have you
22:19 dcolish yeah, i've been away for a while, but I've got some new uses for salt which i'd like to see it handle
22:19 dcolish mainly hadoop/hbase cluster management
22:19 axisys how to change login name of a user? I do not see any user.chlogin for user module
22:20 twinshadow most authors work on a as-needed basis. They have an itch, they scratch it, push to develop, and disappear into the ether
22:20 dcolish whirr is ok, but not really that clean
22:20 SEJeff_work I couldn't believe that there were seriously +45,000 LOC added
22:20 dcolish how much of that are tests
22:20 SEJeff_work didn't look
22:20 dcolish be an interesting metric to have
22:21 dcolish twinshadow: yeah that is the problem and while i dont mind that sort of contribution, it does put a lot more stress on long term maintenance
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22:23 twinshadow Since everything goes into saltstack/salt lit-up, sure. There'll need to be some sort of staging branch for those kinds of risky contribs eventually
22:23 SEJeff_work twinshadow, I think we should pull out some modules to salt-contrib
22:23 SEJeff_work which has happened to an extent
22:23 axisys i am using cmd.run "usermod .." since I do not see any chlogin function for user module
22:24 dcolish SEJeff_work: i was always for that
22:24 dcolish not sure why it didnt happen
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22:26 SEJeff_work dcolish, I think some of it did, but not all of it
22:27 dcolish i think the integration was a bit more complex
22:27 dcolish injection of those contrib modules too a few more steps and most users didnt like that barrier, iirc
22:27 SEJeff_work Yup
22:27 SEJeff_work Just needs a bit of love
22:28 SEJeff_work The first pass I'm doing is honestly just to re-familarize myself with the code. A LOT has changed
22:30 dcolish i bet
22:30 dcolish i'm fairly out of touch now too
22:36 twinshadow am I seeing correctly there is no file_root for "_pillars"?
22:38 kuffs there is a pillar_root
22:38 kuffs http://docs.saltstack.org/en/latest/topics/pillar/index.html#declaring-the-master-pillar
22:38 kuffs pillar_roots
22:38 kuffs er
22:41 jefferai is there a way to organize state files in directories? I'm aware of what you can do with multiple file roots/environments, but would be nice to organize within those
22:42 kuffs directories add namespacing by default
22:42 kuffs I don't go any deeper with directory namespacing as that tends to get a little bit tricky
22:42 jefferai I figured they would, but when I tried referencing those states it didn't work
22:42 jefferai for instance a state in the top level "blah"
22:42 jefferai if I move it into a directory foo
22:42 jefferai and reference foo/blah
22:42 jefferai I get nothing
22:42 kuffs dot is the delimiter for directory namespacing
22:42 jefferai ah
22:43 kuffs I also use a 'files' and a 'templates' folder within the first-level sls modules
22:43 kuffs so that only sls files are in directory 'foo'
22:43 kuffs keeps it a little cleaner when I'm working
22:44 kuffs I also suffix every template in 'templates' with the name of the templating language it uses
22:44 kuffs (I mean 'file.managed' templates, not SLS templates in this case)
22:46 jefferai sure
22:46 jefferai thanks, that's helpful
22:47 kuffs I'm trying to find where the directory stuff is covered in the docs
22:47 SEJeff_work jefferai, If you have foo/blah.sls, you reference it via foo.blah
22:47 SEJeff_work kuffs, in the top file docs
22:47 jefferai SEJeff_work: yep, got that now :-)
22:47 jefferai if you have a directory foo, and you simply reference foo, will it run foo/top.sls?
22:47 kuffs SEJeff_work: there's also this http://docs.saltstack.org/en/latest/topics/tutorials/starting_states.html#moving-beyond-a-single-sls
22:48 kuffs jefferai: foo/init.sls
22:48 jefferai ah, ok
22:48 kuffs the url I linked just now covers that
22:48 SEJeff_work ++
22:48 SEJeff_work kuffs, thanks
22:49 kuffs np np
22:51 kuffs jefferai: I've been experimenting with layouts and conventions as I work on more SLS. I hope to be able to come up with a 'Best Practices' guide that will provide some of the info I shared with you
22:51 jefferai kuffs: cool!
22:53 kuffs salt is really really customizable, and I feel like people tend to get a bit lost when presented all those options
22:53 kuffs guidelines for the common case and maintainability will help out a lot
22:55 axisys how do I copy a file /tmp/list to all the minions /tmp dir ?
22:55 axisys i need to run egrep -f /tmp/file /etc/file on the minions.. so I guess I need to copy the /tmp/file first
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22:56 axisys is this the command?
22:56 axisys salt '*' cp.get_file salt://path/to/file /minion/dest
22:57 axisys i guess i could test against one minion
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23:01 axisys salt '*' cp.get_file salt://tmp/list /tmp did not work
23:03 kuffs /tmp is not part of the master's file_root
23:03 kuffs fairly sure that you can only copy files in that directory and its subdirectories
23:04 kuffs er, s/in/from/
23:04 axisys any way to query the path of master's file_root short from looking into the conf file?
23:06 kuffs no, I don't think so
23:06 kuffs http://salt.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ref/configuration/master.html#file-roots
23:07 axisys my file_root is /etc/salt
23:07 axisys i dropped the /tmp/list file in /etc/salt
23:07 kuffs that's file_roots, btw. I was mistaken
23:08 axisys base:
23:08 axisys - /etc/salt
23:08 axisys so how do I copy it to minion's /tmp ?
23:09 axisys salt 'minion1.*' cp.get_file salt://etc/salt/list /tmp did not copy it over
23:10 kuffs since you've defined a root, the path to the file is actually salt://list
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23:22 axisys kuffs: that fails badly
23:22 axisys kuffs: http://dpaste.com/825380/
23:23 kuffs read the very end of that
23:23 kuffs specify a destination file
23:25 kuffs rather than a destination directory
23:27 drdran joined #salt
23:52 zspencer joined #salt
23:53 axisys kuffs: thanks!
23:56 kuffs np

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