Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2012-11-10

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00:48 joshin Does the "interface" option in the master config also work for the minion one? Thanks!
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04:59 UtahDave https://github.com/saltstack/salt/graphs/impact  is pretty amazing.
04:59 UtahDave Over 220 contributors!
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05:10 herlo UtahDave: you should be enjoying the snow with your family instead of here :)
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05:32 jesusaurus oh, wow, i didnt realize you were such a big contributor dcolish
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16:45 Furao how you guys deal with temporary password used only to plug 2 service together? one that don't need to shared outside salt?
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16:47 Furao not temporary, but random and used for a single purpose
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16:59 Furao postgres_user fail
16:59 Furao output: /bin/bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
17:02 herlo Furao: use something like apg -m 15 -n 1 | passwd --stdin <user> ?
17:02 Furao I tought about this
17:02 Furao but it failed earlier
17:03 Furao [INFO    ] Executing command "psql --no-align --no-readline --no-password -c 'SELECT true FROM pg_roles WHERE EXISTS \\(SELECT rolname WHERE rolname=\\'diamond\\'\\)'" as user 'postgres' in directory '/var/lib/postgresql'
17:03 Furao [DEBUG   ] output: /bin/bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
17:03 herlo well, that's different. Seems like an unmatch quote
17:03 Furao but I don''t see the starting `
17:04 Furao and if I run manually the command without quote
17:04 Furao psql --no-align --no-readline --no-password -c 'SELECT true FROM pg_roles WHERE EXISTS (SELECT rolname WHERE rolname="diamond")'
17:04 Furao ERROR:  column "diamond" does not exist
17:04 herlo I don't think it's backticks, but I don't know how pg displays error messages either. It could be a single quote instead.
17:04 Furao LINE 1: ..._roles WHERE EXISTS (SELECT rolname WHERE rolname="diamond")
17:05 herlo for one, you are not using double quotes in the error, maybe change those out?
17:05 Furao postgres=# SELECT true FROM pg_roles WHERE EXISTS (SELECT rolname WHERE rolname='diamond');
17:05 Furao bool
17:05 Furao ------
17:05 Furao (0 rows)
17:05 herlo you might not have to escape them. Plus, doing shell in CM is painful
17:05 Furao well at least this work
17:05 herlo sure, but it's not about doing it on the cli, it's about having salt do it, right?
17:05 Furao if I flip " and ' it work
17:06 Furao psql --no-align --no-readline --no-password -c "SELECT true FROM pg_roles WHERE EXISTS (SELECT rolname WHERE rolname='diamond')"
17:06 Furao bool
17:06 Furao (0 rows)
17:06 herlo Furao: that's nice
17:06 herlo but like I said, the cli and CM don't necessarily work the same. Escaping is necessary and you just have to get it right. I personally hate it.
17:07 Furao CM?
17:07 herlo config management (salt, puppet, etc)
17:07 Furao ahhh hehe
17:08 Furao but this is postgres_user not my code
17:11 herlo how does tht matter?
17:11 herlo you are still trying to get it to work in salt, right?
17:11 Furao yes
17:11 Furao just to see I tried with postgresql 9.1
17:11 Furao (I was on 9.2)
17:12 herlo have you looked at this? http://docs.saltstack.org/en/latest/ref/states/all/salt.states.postgres_user.html
17:12 herlo seems like what you might want
17:12 Furao I never tried to run psql by hand
17:12 Furao this is what I wanted to tell :)
17:13 herlo so what are you trying to do?
17:13 Furao I was using postgres_user
17:13 Furao this https://gist.github.com/b590531edfa0511f1550
17:14 Furao and the error output is from salt.states.postgres_user
17:14 herlo so the above is the error from that state?
17:14 * herlo thought you were just doing cmd.run
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17:14 Furao yes it is :)
17:15 herlo sounds like a bug
17:15 Furao https://gist.github.com/686d93ef84a4fff3b00b
17:15 herlo probably ought to file an issue on it
17:16 herlo https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues
17:16 herlo file away
17:16 Furao https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/2393
17:16 Furao damn
17:17 Furao I need to wait :(
17:17 UtahDave Furao: what version are you running?
17:17 herlo Furao: the salt team does work pretty quickly
17:17 herlo Furao: look at that, UtahDave is here now :)
17:18 Furao ohhh
17:18 UtahDave :)  No time for slacking off!  :)
17:18 Furao I'm running the ubuntu package 0.10.4-3
17:18 Furao the broken one
17:19 Furao ah only on the server
17:19 UtahDave Furao: is this in production or a test environment?
17:19 Furao a test so far
17:19 Furao it won't be in production until a few weeks
17:20 UtahDave the develop branch has been pretty stable lately, if you want to try Salt with all the latest bug fixes
17:21 Furao there should be nightly .deb :)
17:21 UtahDave 0.10.5 should be released next week. We're shooting for Thursday
17:21 UtahDave Actually, I think there is a nightly in the PPA
17:21 Furao I'll just replace the .py file by hand
17:21 Furao really? yay
17:25 Furao python-zmq : Depends: libzmq3 but it is not installable
17:26 Furao weird it's in the ppa
17:26 Furao ah only for quantal
17:26 Furao the debian/control file probably refer to it
17:27 Furao on non-quantal
17:27 UtahDave ah, there has been some work going on testing zmq 3 with Salt.
17:28 Furao other bug, forking time
17:29 Furao ah no already fixed https://github.com/saltstack/salt/pull/2510
17:30 Furao I'm running salt-minion -l all
17:30 Furao and with latest daily package the output stop very soon
17:30 Furao just after [DEBUG   ] Minion PULL socket URI: ipc:
17:31 Furao but my postgres user is there :)
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18:17 Furao kmod still can't rmmod in daily package
18:18 Furao Comment:   Module hfsplus is present but failed to remove
18:18 Furao but I can rmmod hfsplus
18:51 UtahDave Furao: interesting. can you file a bug on that?
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18:56 Furao ok
18:58 Furao UtahDave: I wish that salt-minion -l all still log everything, that would be helpful to troubleshoot this
18:58 twobitsprite hey peeps... so, I'm looking in to config management system and I'm familiar with puppet/cfengine/etc (at a distance) but I was also looking in to ansible and salt... one thing in specific I'm looking for is something that can easily be bootstrapped on existing servers... I know ansible can do this because it does everything on a shell over ssh... is there a way to do this with salt?
18:58 twobitsprite I have ssh keys for all the servers, if that helps
19:00 Furao https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/2512
19:02 Furao and https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/2513
19:02 twobitsprite I mean, I guess I could use ansible to bootstrap salt, but that seems kind of silly
19:03 Furao twobitsprite: start with some script, maybe fabric, to install salt-minion and configure it to connect to your server IP
19:04 twobitsprite fabric?
19:05 Furao fabfile.org
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19:05 Furao once salt-minion is installed and configured, no need to use something else
19:06 Furao UtahDave: is sys.stdout all redirected elshwhere on the minion?
19:06 Furao I can't even use print
19:06 twobitsprite ok, so basically salt doesn't have a method for bootstrapping
19:07 twobitsprite I mean, I know I can write a script to ssh to the servers and run commands... :)
19:07 Furao twobitsprite: if you start from scratch, there integration for ec2, vagrant and others
19:08 twobitsprite I have about 800 servers, and they're definitely not on ec2, lol :P
19:08 Furao I have a similar case
19:08 Furao and not had yet moved them to salt
19:09 Furao those hosts are installed in hundred of stores with constant disconnections
19:09 twobitsprite we're currently using tivoli endpoint (blech...) to manage them
19:09 Furao with the money you pay for tivoli, you can hire a guy that will install salt using a usb key on the 800 servers and save money on license renewal
19:09 twobitsprite (formally bigfix) but it's more of a patch/security management system than a true configuration management
19:10 twobitsprite Furao: I know! :)
19:10 twobitsprite (well, not really... I work for IBM :P)
19:10 Furao on aix?
19:10 twobitsprite but we do pay for it, just at a large discount...
19:10 twobitsprite no
19:10 twobitsprite linux
19:11 twobitsprite (we do have a handful of aix/solaris/hp-ux, but I don't really care about them :P)
19:11 Furao UtahDave: even sys.stderr is gone :(
19:13 UtahDave Furao: sorry, I've been afk
19:13 Furao https://gist.github.com/52559c90ca2069990ee0
19:14 Furao I just made this small paste, in case you come back later
19:14 UtahDave if you run the minion in the foreground with sudo salt-minion -l debug   that should give you some good info
19:14 UtahDave and print statements should work, too.  I add them all the time when debugging weird things
19:14 Furao that is my point
19:15 Furao both thing don't work anymore
19:15 Furao bug https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/2512
19:16 Furao let's try import pdb; pdb.set_trace()
19:16 Furao not a good idea
19:17 Furao bdb raise BdbQuit
19:18 UtahDave Furao: I just looked at issue #2512, so when the minion is in this state, do commands run from the master work?
19:19 Furao UtahDave: everything work! except logs, sys.stdout and sys.stderr
19:19 Furao I found my problem with postgres_user by raise ValueError(cmdret)
19:19 Furao and see the content of cmdret in job response
19:19 UtahDave but you get nothing on the minion indicating that it's returning anything to the master?
19:20 Furao nothing
19:20 Furao it started doing that after I upgraded to daily .deb when you told me they exists
19:21 UtahDave weird. I'll do some testing on the develop branch. But I'm going to have to leave for an hour or two.
19:21 UtahDave are you going to be online in a couple hours?
19:22 Furao it's 3:22 AM here, I'm in hong kong
19:23 Furao I'll go to bed eventually
19:23 Furao but first I'll have a PR for you
19:24 UtahDave ok, cool
19:25 Furao as soon as my slow DSL fetch all this
19:25 Furao the best connected place in asia, and I have the worst DSL of the country
19:28 UtahDave :)  I just moved. we didn't have internet for like 5 days. I felt like I couldn't breathe!  :)
19:30 Furao I know what it is, I'm moving all the time, I have been in Hong Kong for 2 weeks and I had been in 10 countries in the last 13 months
19:30 UtahDave dang. contract work?
19:32 Furao no, I'm from Canada, I sold everything that I own, married my girlfriend and left for a nomad life, moving from countries to countries on tourist visa, working online, enjoy the world and never spend winter at -40 celcius ever
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19:35 Furao but I'm in HK for "work", I open a company here to never pay taxes again and I had to deal with banking
19:36 Furao https://github.com/saltstack/salt/pull/2514
19:37 UtahDave no corporate taxes in hong kong?
19:37 Furao if you don't do business in HK
19:37 Furao no one know that HK is a tax haven
19:37 Furao it don't have the tax haven stigma
19:38 Furao and as a canadian citizen, I don't have to pay taxes on international income
19:38 Furao and canada do have a tax treaty with HK
19:38 Furao I can pay my personal income tax in HK (which is less than Quebec)
19:39 UtahDave huh, that's cool
19:39 Furao as soon as HK dollars won't be pegged to USD it will be great :) the money will stop loosing value, because they won't have to print all that money
19:45 Furao ah you merged my PR :(
19:45 Furao I found an other bug
19:46 Furao https://github.com/saltstack/salt/pull/2515
19:47 UtahDave just merged that one, too
19:50 Furao Failed to create database sentry
19:50 Furao I'll check tomorrow
19:50 Furao if logging work
19:51 UtahDave OK, thanks for your help and for the pull requests!
19:51 Furao more will probably come
19:51 Furao good job with salt
19:51 Furao I never felt for puppet and chef
19:51 Furao but salt won my heart and I'm moving all my stuff to it :)
19:52 UtahDave :) I'm glad to hear it's working great for you.
19:52 UtahDave If you watched Tom's Salt Air broadcast yesterday, you'll get an idea of how important our community is to us.
19:53 UtahDave We've gotten where we are because we have so many great contributors who have helped make Salt great
19:53 Furao tom's salt air?
19:54 UtahDave Yeah, Tom's going to do a Google Air broadcast twice a month or so about Salt.
19:54 Furao well in my case, I have this client that pay me to work on few open source  project on their behalf and they will pay me to add states and modules to salt (uwsgi is coming soon)
19:54 Furao google air?
19:55 Furao I need to catch up what is going on internet :)
19:55 Furao you have a URL for this?
19:56 UtahDave yeah, just a second.
19:57 UtahDave https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=AYGgi39xD1I
19:58 Furao ah great thanks
19:58 Furao google air, you meant google hangout, rightÉ
19:58 Furao %
19:58 twobitsprite so... I can't tell, does salt use a pull or a push model? I know it uses zeromq, but I'm not really sure how that works... specifically, I'm wondering if the slaves or the master initiates the connection (for firewall, etc reasons)
19:58 Furao grr ?
20:00 UtahDave Furao: right, sorry.  Google Hangout.   Tom is calling the broadcast Salt Air.
20:01 UtahDave twobitsprite: The master needs two ports open
20:01 UtahDave The minions connect to the master and wait for commands. So the minions can be completely firewalled.
20:01 twobitsprite you mean, for the slaves to connect to?
20:01 twobitsprite ahh
20:01 twobitsprite I'm more worried about the other way around :P
20:02 twobitsprite I can connect out to my servers all I want, it's them coming back in which is the problem... but I suppose I can set up ssh tunnels coming back
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20:03 UtahDave Minion = client
20:04 UtahDave so your minion or slaves need to be able to see your master
20:04 twobitsprite I got that :)
20:04 twobitsprite hence why I'm thinking I can use an ssh tunnel from the remote systems (slaves/clients/whatever) back to my master
20:05 twobitsprite ohh, I see.. I did refer to the remote systems as "servers"... sorry, I just meant "remote machines"/etc
20:06 UtahDave gotcha.
20:07 UtahDave back in a little bit.
20:10 Furao twobitsprite: you mean the connection is initiated from the server to the clientÉ
20:10 Furao ?
20:10 Furao (non salt connection)
20:11 twobitsprite no, sorry, I think I've confused everyone by saying "server" when I meant "client"...
20:11 Furao start from scratch
20:11 Furao server == salt server
20:11 twobitsprite I meant connections from the remote "slaves" come through a restrictive firewall to where the "master" would be
20:11 Furao minion == the client side
20:11 twobitsprite I'll just use slave/master :)
20:12 Furao but, you know
20:12 Furao there is a concept of master/slave in salt too
20:12 Furao you can have a single salt server
20:12 Furao and sub-server called syndic
20:12 twobitsprite right, I get
20:13 twobitsprite ok, master/minion :)
20:13 twobitsprite I assume you're going to say you can have "slave servers" which serve salt minions?
20:13 Furao somewhat yes
20:14 Furao let's say you have 2 offices
20:14 Furao and a central datacenter
20:14 Furao you can have 2 syndic in each office and one master in the datacenter
20:14 Furao and in both office plenty of minion
20:14 twobitsprite anyways... so getting my network people to open up new ports from the remote "minions" back in to my central datacenter where the "master" will be is like pulling teeth
20:14 twobitsprite well, it's more like 1 datacenter a hundreds of remote sites :)
20:15 Furao yes, I used to work for IBM too on a bank that opening a port was very complicated
20:15 Furao but you mean, server can connect on most port of minions?
20:15 Furao a
20:15 Furao but minions can't connect to server?
20:15 dcolish the syndic pattern is ideal for situations just like these where you want to limit network connections across untrusted networks
20:15 twobitsprite yeah... not only do we have the firewall at our datacenter, but each site has firewalls that we manage, and some of them also go through customer controlled firewalls, so we'd have to get them to open ports too
20:16 twobitsprite Furao: not over a new port... they can over ssh
20:16 twobitsprite (and a few other ports, but for other things)
20:16 Furao I'm not sure it's a good idea to do zeromq over ssh
20:16 twobitsprite this document talks about it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/17jK72NQGXUQ4sJvzhet9aUG65ZGheg0ZZdCBajRRG1Q/edit?pli=1#heading=h.292s0zgjhz08
20:17 dcolish that should not be an issue
20:17 twobitsprite https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/1930
20:17 dcolish 0mq will not care if you go over ssh
20:17 Furao yes, it will work
20:17 twobitsprite I wouldn't think it would
20:18 twobitsprite ssh tunnels should be transparent except that it looks like you're connecting to localhost
20:18 twobitsprite (and on the other side, being connected to from localhost)
20:18 dcolish a saner thing to do would be to setup a proper vpn
20:18 dcolish managing ssh tunnels is a bit hacky
20:18 twobitsprite we do have proper VPNs, but they also go through firewalls
20:19 dcolish before the vpn endpoints, makes sense
20:19 twobitsprite dcolish: you don't work where I do... hacky is our middle name, unfortunately... I'm trying to fix that, but it's a long time coming
20:19 dcolish ssh tunnels are fine, just more to work deal with although
20:19 dcolish you could put together a salt state to manage it pretty easily :)
20:19 twobitsprite yeah, my main concern would be if for some reason the tunnel went down having to bring it back up
20:20 twobitsprite but I could write a quick cron job to check the state of the tunnel and bring it back up
20:20 dcolish monit is good for this task too
20:22 dcolish this seems interesting https://github.com/apenwarr/sshuttle
20:22 twobitsprite interesting, I haven't heard of monit
20:22 dcolish its decent, used it a lot a few years ago
20:23 dcolish similar to supervisord or other daemon management systems
20:24 dcolish daemontools also comes to mind
20:24 twobitsprite right on
20:24 twobitsprite I know of daemontools, but it always reminds me of the cdrom emulator for reading iso files in windows :P
20:24 dcolish monit can do some simple alerting too
20:24 twobitsprite anyways, I've added monit to my things to look in to...
20:25 dcolish yeah daemontools is a little old
20:25 dcolish but it works
20:25 twobitsprite our environment in a mess which has been pretty much just flung out hap-hazardly but several "generations" of admins, with no consideration for large-scale management, patching, etc, etc... we still have a few hundred RHEL4 systems out there :(
20:26 twobitsprite s/but/by
20:26 dcolish seems challenging
20:27 dcolish are you using anything like satellite/cobbler?
20:27 twobitsprite speaking of which... I saw salt requires python 2.6... any idea where I can get an RPM for that? rpmfind and pbone aren't helpful... if not, I can try to build it from source, but I'd rather not
20:27 twobitsprite nope. :P
20:27 twobitsprite our systems are built by another team in house, then shipped to the remote locations
20:28 dcolish not sure where you can get rhel4 backports of 2.6 if they're not in EPEL
20:28 dcolish you might have to just make an rpm yourself
20:28 twobitsprite I'm mostly responsible for 50 or so backoffice systems, but increasingly the teams who are supposed to be responsible for manageing the remote "production" systems have been dropping the ball and pushing us to do more of it...
20:29 twobitsprite I don't think there is an EPEL for RHEL4... I think they only have 5 and 6 repos
20:29 twobitsprite anyways, enough complaining/rambling... :P
20:30 * dcolish nods
20:30 dcolish well good luck with your tunnels, i gotta run
20:30 twobitsprite thanks for the help
20:45 UtahDave twobitsprite: you might consider using a "frozen" build of Salt.
20:45 twobitsprite UtahDave: what do you mean?
20:45 UtahDave kuffs has added functionality that you can freeze salt with bbfreeze and esky.
20:45 UtahDave You can even update the minions using esky
20:45 * twobitsprite googles
20:46 UtahDave let me find a link.
20:46 UtahDave twobitsprite: https://salt.readthedocs.org/en/latest/topics/tutorials/esky.html?highlight=freeze
20:47 UtahDave I haven't implemented it myself, yet, but will be soon. kuffs uses it, from what I understand
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21:12 archie_ I'm just starting to evaluate the salt. It is not clear for me, at this point of time,  how to do configuration management and distribution  for, for example, custom apache build, without creating a custom rpm package. Thank you all for your time!
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23:28 kuffs twobitsprite: utahdave is right, I added the esky stuff and it is how I Q/A and push the app to both my linux and windows boxes
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